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| XR9UTE |
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66 coupe wrote: XR9UTE wrote: 327 is supposed to be EGR shorted to ground so you might want to fix that. The 176 with LPG is usually due to your LPG running stoic @ 15.7:1(at least it should be) which means the EEC is always seeing it as too lean. Does this SVI system have any form of simulated HEGO output to spit back to the EEC? This would help matters. . Not entirely correct Pete, Remember the o2 sensors read lambda, well the narrowabands switching point at 1 lambda, this being the stoic point which the ecu translates back to petrol AFR @ 14.7 Petrol physical mass at stoic is 14.7 LPG physical mass at stoic is 15.5 It is correct Jamie, I've actually measured it when I had LPG on my ute. Tuning the LPG for 15.7:1 with a WB and reading the same with the HEGO's. If I log 15.7 with the EEC, the EEC sees 15.7. It then set a code for mixture too lean. |
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| cardy |
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well i ran both o2 through the lpg interface and on petrol the widebands emulated 02 was reading from 0-1.2v which seems high and lean. even after i adjusted the wideband control to read 0-.9v....but anyway when car ran lean disconected the emulated narrowband from ecu an noticed afr went from lean to around 11-13 and neva went lean again higher then low 16s. just letting car cool down and going to see if it does it again with no o2 signal sent to the computer from passenger side. just wondering tho if one o2 drops out does the ecu just take signal from other o2 thats still workin cos injector times on all 8 cyl stayed bout the same or close to.
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| cardy |
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heres a pic of what im seeing, injector one is actually 8th cyl and going backwards, blame lpg installer for that but all injectors run to their correct wiring just the order which shouldnt affect operation since when lpg just coppies the petrol signal an send it to lpg injector. this was with no o2 on passenger side or injectors 1-4 in pic an afr was around 15 on that side. even without o2 its pulse times are shorter which doesnt seem right im sure the ecu must be faulty.
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| 66 coupe |
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XR9UTE wrote: It is correct Jamie, I've actually measured it when I had LPG on my ute. Tuning the LPG for 15.7:1 with a WB and reading the same with the HEGO's. If I log 15.7 with the EEC, the EEC sees 15.7. It then set a code for mixture too lean. Pete, If the NB / EEC was reading 15.7 then you were tuning 1 point too lean. The WB if setup for petrol, will still show 14.7 when LPG is burning stoic, not 15.5. Unless you specifically set it up for LPG, so it translates the AFR correctly it will mislead you. It does not matter what fuel you are using, whether its petrol, lpg or methanol, when that fuel is burning at its stoic ratio (1 lambda), the o2 sensor will output 0.45v. It is the eec that translates it to an AFR (14.7 for petrol). Switch you WB to lambda mode, and tune for 1 lambda, that way it doesnt matter what fuel you use, when its stoic, it will show 1. which then translates to a physical mixture of 14.7 to 1 for petrol or 15.5 to 1 for gas |
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| cardy |
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another pic this time on gas shows both times, have since spoken to injectronics who said they have never seen one of these ecu run uneven pulse times an cause it to be lean like this, looks like might have to get it tested unless i can get my hands on el xr8 ecu
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| XR9UTE |
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Ok I see what your saying Jamie,
Yes it was an old innovate job and was set to read for LPG. Strange that the EEC still logged 15.7 in that case and I've seen many LPG setups logging too lean codes in the EEC. Cardy, I'd be buzzing out your injector pins to be sure the EEC pin goes to it's actual numbered injector. |
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| cardy |
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will double check 2moz i know the petrol injector passthrough match the same lpg injector per cylinder just the loom label for injector just he hasnt followed the labeling hes put injector one as 8 then all way down back wards.
cyl 1 -lpg/pet injector 8 cyl 2 -lpg/pet injector 7 cyl 3 -lpg/pet injector 6 cyl 4 -lpg/pet injector 5 cyl 5 -lpg/pet injector 4 cyl 6 -lpg/pet injector 3 cyl 7 -lpg/pet injector 2 cyl 8 -lpg/pet injector 1 what u see in the pic for each injector is matched just the positioning is wrong an i really cbf taking the manifold off as i cant see this being a problem. |
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| cardy |
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double checked wiring all ok idle problem is gettin worse starting to freqently stall on decel an turning etc
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| XR9UTE |
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As long as your EEC injector pin matches the actual cylinder fuel injector that won't be problem.
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| cardy |
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ecu been sent away for testing
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| SPArKy_Dave |
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Any news on this?
I've got an EL wags with a Windsor, which is showing essentially the same thing It's straight petrol, no LPG. - 1 bank lean, cold start flatspot, stalls, pinging under load, surging, etc. codes - 327, 172. This engine does have an EGR. |
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| Gaz |
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Interested in this also.
My Au2 xr8 (manual) is having a similar problem. On cold start it misses at idle, give the throttle a quick stab and it'll splutter and die. Give it slow throttle and it'll rev up, let the clutch out and it misses big time and splutters and dies. Give it decent revs and slip the clutch it will go, then miss, then go and miss. Give it 1 minute to warm up and then it runs fine. I've done plugs, leads and cam position sensor.. was thinking about O2 sensors, but thought that under cold starts O2's are ignored as the ecu is open loop?
_________________ 2007 Steel BF Ghia MKII V8 - 19" GTP's + Superlows |
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| Scaffy |
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Gaz wrote: Interested in this also. My Au2 xr8 (manual) is having a similar problem. On cold start it misses at idle, give the throttle a quick stab and it'll splutter and die. Give it slow throttle and it'll rev up, let the clutch out and it misses big time and splutters and dies. Give it decent revs and slip the clutch it will go, then miss, then go and miss. Give it 1 minute to warm up and then it runs fine. I've done plugs, leads and cam position sensor.. was thinking about O2 sensors, but thought that under cold starts O2's are ignored as the ecu is open loop? I wold look at the MAF for this one. Give it a good clean and see how she goes. I've experienced similar problems as above, regarding the banks having different fueling in closed loop. Don't discount the fact that although near new, one of the narrow bands could be faulty. Ideally, you want to run 2 narrowbands to discount the emulation being the problem. Ensure both hegos are grounded properly. Make sure all the wiring is correct, if it's been messed with. it would be interesting to hear the result of the ecu test. I've hit a brick wall with one car I've been tuning. One hego reads full lean, as if it's dead, commanding a rich condition. Swapped it out with a new hego and it is the same. Put the old one from the opposite bank in there and still behaves the same. I did notice after a while it did appear to come online, but it's very intermittent and looks to be real lazy. The car was rewired some time ago, so I've put it down to a wiring problem, but I may try changing out the ecu and see if that gives any joy. To combat the problem for now, I've had to force open loop and dial in cruise and idle at around 15:1.
_________________ Trickflow Street Heat top end kit, 70mm BBK TB & EGR, 24lb injectors, Underdrives & 3.73s: 275rwhp - 13.15@105mph NA / 12.37@116mph N20 |
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| Gaz |
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MAF is clean. If I unplug the O2 sensors will the ECU see their missing and run at some sort of default rich setting? Just to see if that's the cause of the miss.
_________________ 2007 Steel BF Ghia MKII V8 - 19" GTP's + Superlows |
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