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Inserting an OHC where it wasn't meant to go 

 

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 Post subject: Inserting an OHC where it wasn't meant to go
Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 4:39 pm 
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Hi there everybody.
I have a few questions about the OHC conversion of an earlier Falcon.

The proposal is to get a rough bodied EA-ED with a OHC motor and hopefully 4 speed auto and get it into a XE wagon as cheaply as possible.

I know I would need XG engine mounts, but does the gearbox mount up, and will I need a different length tailshaft?

Also, I know it is easy to set up the fuelling and ignition for an early single point 3.9, but how much messing around do I need to do for a 4.0 multipoint?
I have heard of Smartlock or something like that, which is a problem, also that the early 4 speed boxes had a separate computer to the engine computer, and are easier to wire up?

Can I use the original radiator?
Can I run the standard speedo pickup in teh 4 speed box?

Is there anything blindingly obvious that I am missing?

I am quite experienced with the earlier Falcons and motors, gearboxes etc, but have never had anything to do with the OHC jobs.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Inserting an OHC where it wasn't meant to go
Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 5:00 pm 
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carnut1100 wrote:
Hi there everybody.
I have a few questions about the OHC conversion of an earlier Falcon.

The proposal is to get a rough bodied EA-ED with a OHC motor and hopefully 4 speed auto and get it into a XE wagon as cheaply as possible.

I know I would need XG engine mounts, but does the gearbox mount up, and will I need a different length tailshaft?

Also, I know it is easy to set up the fuelling and ignition for an early single point 3.9, but how much messing around do I need to do for a 4.0 multipoint?
I have heard of Smartlock or something like that, which is a problem, also that the early 4 speed boxes had a separate computer to the engine computer, and are easier to wire up?

Can I use the original radiator?
Can I run the standard speedo pickup in teh 4 speed box?

Is there anything blindingly obvious that I am missing?

I am quite experienced with the earlier Falcons and motors, gearboxes etc, but have never had anything to do with the OHC jobs.


shouldn't have a drama really you will have everything there but i think with the tail shafts maybe see if you can find a T5 XF wagon tailshaft

with that the rest should be just time and paitance.

 

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Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 5:18 pm 
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HOw early a motor and box do I need to avoid trouble with vehicle speed sensors, coded key locks and that sort of thing.
I want to keep it as simple and cheap as possible.

As for the tailshaft, a mate of mine works at a place that does tailshaft sortening, diff narrowing etc. Not a problem if I need it done, just maybe easier to drop something in.
His project at the moment is an Austin A40 with a Holden Grey motor, Supra box, Commodore diff with Falcon brakes etc etc, so any fabrication is well sorted. I have also stuck many bits where they didn't belong in Transits and so on.
It is the compatibility of electronics and what components I need to source that is my main concern.

 

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Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 5:27 pm 
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anything upto AU motor, but you'll need to go Early EB at the latest ECU wise to avoid smartlock.

 

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Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 5:32 pm 
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carnut1100 wrote:
HOw early a motor and box do I need to avoid trouble with vehicle speed sensors, coded key locks and that sort of thing.
I want to keep it as simple and cheap as possible.

As for the tailshaft, a mate of mine works at a place that does tailshaft sortening, diff narrowing etc. Not a problem if I need it done, just maybe easier to drop something in.
His project at the moment is an Austin A40 with a Holden Grey motor, Supra box, Commodore diff with Falcon brakes etc etc, so any fabrication is well sorted. I have also stuck many bits where they didn't belong in Transits and so on.
It is the compatibility of electronics and what components I need to source that is my main concern.


well i would go something Pre Smartlock (EA 3.9 / EB 3.9 / EB 4.0)
really if you want a straight drop in no worry job get an donor car that has the three speed box. or manual..

 

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Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 5:40 pm 
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Theres no need to avoid smartlock though - the smartlock bypass is available both here and on ebay for under $100.

Nigel
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Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 7:15 pm 
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No need to use the XG mounts, they're identical to the EA mounts.

 

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Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 8:11 pm 
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yeah an EA multipoint or EB series 1 multipoint would be good

 

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Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 8:19 pm 
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If you are after a less / no hassle conversion just find a cheap EA or EB presmartlock..

or if you want the a newer engine go for the smartlock bypass (but remeber more wiring and colours)

ya prolly would want to also chase up some XG (ie airbox an hoses) radiator can use it but i would get it cleaned etc etc professionally and get some mulitfit hoses

the easist way is to get another donor car so you can get all the engine looms etc etc and not have toworry about wires etc etc but you will still have to wire in the speed sensors and misc s**t that goes to the cluster etc

 

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Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 1:09 pm 
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My idea is to find a donor car, it must be auto, or I would be looking for a manual for sure!
I would prefer 4 speed auto for better cruising and economy.
I want to keep the Xe dash if I can.

So, the hunt is on for a rusty/bent/scruffy out of rego EB1 as cheap as possible.

Thanks guys.

 

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Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 7:48 pm 
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knowsfords wrote:
No need to use the XG mounts, they're identical to the EA mounts.


Erm, they're not.

XG mounts have the same bolt pattern to that of the EA/EB's, but they're completely different size.

Notice how in some conversions punters cut crossmembers, and on others they don't? Some use EA mounts, and others us XG...
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Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 8:20 pm 
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how is this project coming along on the hunt for a doner car yet

 

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Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 8:28 pm 
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go have a look at www.xfalcon.com
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Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 11:08 am 
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Quicklier wrote:
knowsfords wrote:
No need to use the XG mounts, they're identical to the EA mounts.


Erm, they're not.

XG mounts have the same bolt pattern to that of the EA/EB's, but they're completely different size.

Notice how in some conversions punters cut crossmembers, and on others they don't? Some use EA mounts, and others us XG...


Erm, have you done this conversion???

I have years ago (2003) and i've done quite a few since! It just amazes me how much mis-information PERSISTS to be spread about the conversion. I know there is more than one way to skin a cat but it seems that people that have never done it keep spreading false info and it just won't die!

Knowfords is correct. The XG mounts don't sit the engine in a different spot AT ALL. Go look at some XG's and then some XFs that have had the conversion done. Look side by side. Use a tape if you have to to measure stuff. The engine can't go back more than the firewall will allow. Alot of the angst about mounts originally came from people who didn't have their gearboxes fitted at the time and thought the balancer was hitting the rad support. When the gearbox is fitted you will see the angle allows lots of clearance to an EA-B-D balancer and even more on a smaller EF-L balancer.

There is a stack of stuff that people say "just use XG....." including the radiator which doesn't bl00dy fit as the XG rad support is totally different. For one its FLAT at the bottom.

When you talk about cutting cross members, it sends shivers down my spine as it is entirely unnecessary to cut the radiator support using either stock XD-E-F mounts or XG mounts. THE ISSUE is not the mounts but the clearance of the alternator. Even so this is only the case with early alternators on EA-B-D. If you are going to run EF-L or AU then a serpentine belt set up, the alternator is in a fixed position and entirely clears the radiator support. If you use the early EA-D set up then its quite simply a case of changing the alternator pulley to something larger and then fitting the correct (shorter) belt. This pulls the alternator right up close to the block and releives the clearance issue. No need to cut anything and no need for XG mounts.


The next issue is the fitment of the radiator. Ok so people say use XG. Well that doesn't work and there are plenty of people who can tell you how they wasted $200 finding that out when i said it all along. The easiest is to just use the stock EA_B_D radiator. You need to use two drivers side XF radiator mounts as the E's rad tanks are wider. Then its a case of positioning the radiator and marking the new location of the mounts. (Not hard). Then you have to make the upper mounts fit as the radiator will be sitting a bit lower and they are different dimensions. Make sure there is room to get the hose on and off as its really close to teh rad support.

Then you have to start hooking up accessories like power steering. Just go to pirtek/enzed and get a hose made. Alt wiring is simple just chop an old efi plug. One wire goes to the battery terminal on the back and the other goes to the warning light.

Ok so you are concerned about wiring this up, easy way out: Straight GAS and use a combination of the XF EST computer with the EA CPI dizzy. This gives you a stand alone BOSCH amplified ignition system that works a treat. EAsy to connect too.

If you start down the path of the full EFI conversion its not impossible but it is much more involved and starts to add up. With the price of cars (and fuel) the way it is it doesn't make economic sense to do this conversion unless you really love the car and are going to hang onto it for years.

Hope this helps and its not intended to start a flame war. I just get tired of answering the same q's and trying to kill off this whole XG malarky.

Btw go check out xfalcon.com as there is alot of info and pics there. and my last bit of sage advice is ONLY LISTEN TO PEOPLE THAT HAVE DONE THE CONVERSION.

 

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Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 7:42 pm 
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aaron_hogan wrote:
Quicklier wrote:
knowsfords wrote:
No need to use the XG mounts, they're identical to the EA mounts.


Erm, they're not.

XG mounts have the same bolt pattern to that of the EA/EB's, but they're completely different size.

Notice how in some conversions punters cut crossmembers, and on others they don't? Some use EA mounts, and others us XG...


Erm, have you done this conversion???

I have years ago (2003) and i've done quite a few since! It just amazes me how much mis-information PERSISTS to be spread about the conversion. I know there is more than one way to skin a cat but it seems that people that have never done it keep spreading false info and it just won't die!

Knowfords is correct. The XG mounts don't sit the engine in a different spot AT ALL. Go look at some XG's and then some XFs that have had the conversion done. Look side by side. Use a tape if you have to to measure stuff. The engine can't go back more than the firewall will allow. Alot of the angst about mounts originally came from people who didn't have their gearboxes fitted at the time and thought the balancer was hitting the rad support. When the gearbox is fitted you will see the angle allows lots of clearance to an EA-B-D balancer and even more on a smaller EF-L balancer.

There is a stack of stuff that people say "just use XG....." including the radiator which doesn't bl00dy fit as the XG rad support is totally different. For one its FLAT at the bottom.

When you talk about cutting cross members, it sends shivers down my spine as it is entirely unnecessary to cut the radiator support using either stock XD-E-F mounts or XG mounts. THE ISSUE is not the mounts but the clearance of the alternator. Even so this is only the case with early alternators on EA-B-D. If you are going to run EF-L or AU then a serpentine belt set up, the alternator is in a fixed position and entirely clears the radiator support. If you use the early EA-D set up then its quite simply a case of changing the alternator pulley to something larger and then fitting the correct (shorter) belt. This pulls the alternator right up close to the block and releives the clearance issue. No need to cut anything and no need for XG mounts.


The next issue is the fitment of the radiator. Ok so people say use XG. Well that doesn't work and there are plenty of people who can tell you how they wasted $200 finding that out when i said it all along. The easiest is to just use the stock EA_B_D radiator. You need to use two drivers side XF radiator mounts as the E's rad tanks are wider. Then its a case of positioning the radiator and marking the new location of the mounts. (Not hard). Then you have to make the upper mounts fit as the radiator will be sitting a bit lower and they are different dimensions. Make sure there is room to get the hose on and off as its really close to teh rad support.

Then you have to start hooking up accessories like power steering. Just go to pirtek/enzed and get a hose made. Alt wiring is simple just chop an old efi plug. One wire goes to the battery terminal on the back and the other goes to the warning light.

Ok so you are concerned about wiring this up, easy way out: Straight GAS and use a combination of the XF EST computer with the EA CPI dizzy. This gives you a stand alone BOSCH amplified ignition system that works a treat. EAsy to connect too.

If you start down the path of the full EFI conversion its not impossible but it is much more involved and starts to add up. With the price of cars (and fuel) the way it is it doesn't make economic sense to do this conversion unless you really love the car and are going to hang onto it for years.

Hope this helps and its not intended to start a flame war. I just get tired of answering the same q's and trying to kill off this whole XG malarky.

Btw go check out xfalcon.com as there is alot of info and pics there. and my last bit of sage advice is ONLY LISTEN TO PEOPLE THAT HAVE DONE THE CONVERSION.


Hey Aaron, I appear to have also been mislead regarding the EA-ED / XG engine mounts also.

I'm doing an EL OHC into an XC, this presents its own challenges not experienced by yourself with your conversion (into an XE if I recall correctly).

I agree that there is a plethora of poor information out there, I can't believe that I was contributing to it having waded through it for the past few years.

How has your dizzy held up? The speedway guys only get a few months out of an EA dizzy utilising the upsidedowngear(TM) mod due to the slack it has at high RPM.

But to all those attempting the mod, it really is easy. It has extremely little custom work (excluding the power steer, aircon and cooling lines) but isn't exactly a 250-Friday, OHC-Monday type of conversion.

My XC is still sitting without a heart due to clutch pains (can't use hydraulic, must use cable in the new T5's). Bolting the engine in is the easy bit, it's all the other stuff that runs to/from the engine that provides entertainment.

I've got a project thread open at another site, if anyone is interested PM me for details.
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