exactly, i already emailed the guy about it

the 14.3 was done with this arrangement....

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That arrangement, as you put it, looks fine at first glance, but as the test data shows, that position isn't a high pressure zone. You'd get better by extending the 80mm or so ducting you have there down to directly above the headlight or bumper... Either that or sticking it out of bonnet by another six inches to get into the faster air flow, but even then most of the air there would already be part of a bow wave or shocked by the front of the car... Would have liked to have my hands on your bonnet when doing the induction pressure testing that I plan...! Putting a further pipe on the end of that setup and then measuring responses beyond directly in front of filter should provide further food for thought (read - confusion...!)

With your improved system (as your quick sketch) I'd guess slightly better responses, although little difference over the 0-50km/h range. Once you get about 50kmh, the low pressure at that area will start sucking air out the engine bay meaning you're actually collecting used air from your radiator. As I found on my FIEND SCALE, the throttle can use up to +3.5 continuously when combined with my relatively nice extractors... The area you're getting air from in picture is -3. If the unit was sealed to a complete bonnet that would mean your engine was actually working twice as hard to drag air into its starving self.

However, since it is not sealed, you're collecting warm dirty old air from your engine bay as it is at +1 to +2 and is heading towards the -3 of the outside and the -3.5 of the induction pipe...

I ain't no mathematician, you'd better go see Russell Crow (that NZ throwaway, no good, small man syndrome, actor guy...) and ask him and his beautiful mind about the exact dynamic of sucking 3.5 units out of a space which would have -3.


My head hurts.

yeah i never thought about it sucking air out of the bonnet even though its protuding from it.

my nest drag setup will use my existing airbox setup except ill replace the filter with a nice bell mouth entry i made, which tapers from 5" to 3"

That sounds like the one dude. Would be real interested to see what your time comes in at, although you may have changed other things too? There's nowhere like that set up around my area, and entering my slow old wagon into a quarter mile event seems a little stupid just so I can get an official time. Mind you - would be nice to see what it does standard to gauge further improvements against later. Where was that entry form?

no its still the same setup, im using the taper of a 3" reducing fitting as the bellmouth, hopefully ill have another time slip in 2 weeks

Cool... That time slip will be interesting... By my junior calculations I'd
suggest more pressure in the manifold resulting in more fuel in the
chamber resulting in faster revs...




On the side issue here - I have found a source of enough 8mm Phenolic
sheet to sink a battle ship, but they'll sell me a 100x800x8mm sheet for
$80NZ, shipped and landed to my house. YAY.

Now for the interesting part.

During my search I found this company that produces similar things for
the NZV8 series (Kayne Scott, Craig Baird --- You know... The NZ equal
to the Kinolta or development series in AU)...

This outfit don't have a setup for the Inline Six Four Litre that we know
and love (or hate on particularly bad days) but I convinced them to give
me their email address and will look at producing an AutoCad file for
them to make real nicely finished, brand spanking, gaskets for us.


They use a 60,000psi water jet to cut almost bloody
anything... This gasket should be a breeze.


I have also found thinner material available, which would allow me to cut
it relatively happily myself using garage workshop tools. But the 8mm
seems to cope with laying waste to well over 200 degrees C... Awesome,
that'd keep that troublesome hunk of heatsink known as a manifold cool.
Yeah baby!



If there's any interest in this, I will save money on the product by being
able to order more than one... Only thing to consider is the possible need
for slightly longer bolts to go through into the engine as you're adding
8mm.

Okay - Am now off to find an old gasket from the intake side and start tracing!...

Go for a drive in your Inline 6 and then pop the bonnet and stick your
hand on the inlet manifold. Then tell all your mates to do the same. Then
consider the possibility of isolating the manifold from the engines heat.
Then get back to me here.

http://www.fordmods.com/forums/post915148.html#915148

.

Last edited by fiend on Sun Nov 23, 2008 7:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

what are the units of pressure are u measuring the air pressures with?

That is a hard one to answer. The measurements are purely taken in
relation to relatively stable air pressure (in cabin, behind rear-view mirror).


The test was conducted as described.


The results can best be defined as mm of water movement within a 10mm
pipe. Becuase of the limitations of my marking utensil, my result of, say 3.5
would actually be a water movement of 7mm. This movement is not a peak
measurement, but is an average - and the result was held stable at 70km/h
for two seconds or longer on flat road.


Am on strict budgets here!...

Last edited by fiend on Mon Nov 24, 2008 12:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

i dont quite understand the 'average' figure. i was thinking that at a constant speed you would have a constant pressure.

but anyway...

3.5mm movement of water
=1000x9.81x0.0035
=34.3 Pascals ( or 0.005 PSI)

so to pressurise to 1PSI (to ram air up an intake for example) you would need 700mm of movement

Sorry - That is what I meant by average.... I mean the spikes that the
waters own momentum created by acceleration, bumps in the road, etc
were taken out by keeping reading the same over a few seconds at the
same speed. You're quite right to ask, but it is more of my lack of
technical writing capability than an error in the test...


Interesting numbers you produce there. Although 3.5 on the chart is
actually 7mm!...


Anyways - here's something I wrote on the Phenolic spacer thread which
is in direct correlation to what we are on about here....





And, with all that copying, pasting, typing and mouse moving I have put
down my tuna, salad and tomato sandwich (with no butter). Upon picking
it up again half the tuna stayed on the computer desk and the other half
is evenly distributed between my lap, the floor and the computer
keyboard.

Last edited by fiend on Mon Nov 24, 2008 1:36 pm, edited 2 times in total.

The other thing to consider is that there is a slight possibility that the cabin
pressure at the review mirror is slightly positive, but this test is simply
COMPARING the two, not providing an absolute PSI at any given point on
car.

i think you have a problem with your unit conversion

area of a 3" circle= 0.00456 m2
not 0.5m2 as you have factored into your working out

so.... 19.44 x 60 x 0.00456 = 5.32m3/min or 5320L/min

is that right?

Uhm... I think a 3 inch circle has more than 0.00456m2.
After all 0.004m2 is very very small. Although, you are
right. Something was wrong with my maths I think... If
you have a 10cm x 5 cm rectangle... What is the
square centimetres it covers?

My answer, off the top of my head, is 50cm2. Which, when converted, is
about 0.005m2. I use 0.5m2. Quite right.


Okay then. At least the air available through a 3" hope traveling at
70km/h has now been worked out to be approximately what the engine
requires at 2,000 rpm.

This would mean that some form of ram air induction would improve
engine characteristics at low revs or high speeds (or both combined...)

Which basically means - bugger it - I ain't putting my air box back in...

Last edited by fiend on Mon Nov 24, 2008 2:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.