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Improving your 6cyl E-series Throttlebody the DIY way 

 

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 Post subject: Re: Port/Polishing your 6cyl E-series Throttlebody the DIY way
Posted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 3:15 pm 
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how is more flow a stupid mod? plus it was free and looks good
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 Post subject: Re: Port/Polishing your 6cyl E-series Throttlebody the DIY way
Posted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 4:28 pm 
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tickford_6 wrote:
I just sat down with a calculator for a while and worked out some basic areas for stock and modified TBs

All are worked out based on an 8mm shaft.

Stock 65mm tb has an area of 2798mm squared
stock 65mm tb with half shaft mod has an area of 3058mm squared
70mm tb with full 8mm shaft has an area of 3288mm squared
70mm tb with half shaft has an area of 3568mm squared.


For what is a free mod, it's a decent increase in TB area.

Nice!! Thanks for those figures Tickford_6, much appreciated mate :wink:

So based on the first set of figures for the 65mm T/B with an 8mm shaft that's about an 8-9% increase in area after the half shaft mod. That's not too bad at all.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Improving your 6cyl E-series Throttlebody the DIY way
Posted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 6:04 pm 
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...didn't even see this thread :shock:...

I have a spare one right here...and since I am cheap and it's free, I am happy to give this a shot :D.

Cheers KWIKXR...

PS...to the hater...you idiot.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Improving your 6cyl E-series Throttlebody the DIY way
Posted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 11:13 pm 
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My two bits worth says its worthwhile doing.

I have some old books on modifying engines to get more power old tech style. These were done with flow bench and dyno results listed. The guy who wrote them (David Vizzard) was a serious racer and engine builder during the 60's 70's 80's. He made massive power from tiny mini engines. He also did V8's etc. He details this technique in his books so I believe him.
I followed his instructions when building my ridiculous mini.

When I bought it, it had 27HP at the flywheel if you were lucky. It struggled to get to 120kph downhill with a tailwind. 998cc of Brittish engineering from the 30's.

After modding, head, cam, twin carbs, bored out 40thou, lightened flywheel, extractors, 2.5" exhaust. It was as fast a Cooper S 1275 in a drag race. It used to smoke the bags all the time and flames came out of the exhaust. It handled on rails and loved the handbrake turns. It would get to 170kph easily.

Great Idea, I might do it myself as i have a spare TB laying arround.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Improving your 6cyl E-series Throttlebody the DIY way
Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 12:42 am 
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if i ever get some spare time i might try this on one of the standard E series V8 throttle bodys. they need all the help they can get.
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 Post subject: Re: Improving your 6cyl E-series Throttlebody the DIY way
Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 4:13 pm 
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With an increase of 8% thats a pretty good gain, id be looking at get it possibly bored out to 65mm too.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Improving your 6cyl E-series Throttlebody the DIY way
Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 2:53 am 
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Nice little mod! Will have to give this a go!

Good work :D
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 Post subject: Re: Improving your 6cyl E-series Throttlebody the DIY way
Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 12:58 pm 
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I reckon the gains seen by this mod would be in proportion to how many other breathing mods you have done to your car.

It sounds like something i should have a crack at!

Cheers

ToranaGuy

 

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 Post subject: Re: Improving your 6cyl E-series Throttlebody the DIY way
Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 4:02 pm 
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Realy didnt think this would do anything for power,But you do have the dyno sheet there....
The two quickest I6 E-Series in Australia are both using a stock T/B and non ported.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Improving your 6cyl E-series Throttlebody the DIY way
Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 4:36 pm 
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Cheers guys.

Yeah, i still don't have before and after dyno results of the stock T/B vs the modded one. It won't be a big increase in kw's on the dyno as this is still maintaining a std sized bore, but in all honesty it did feel more responsive on the throttle. Might not be so noticeable on a fairly stock engine, but mine had extractors, exhaust, modded intake, mild cam and slightly bumped up CR at the time which would of helped make it more noticeable. Good thing about it, is it can be done for zero cost if you have the tools to do so, so you have nothing to lose but a bit of time :P

FAST-XR had his T/B bored out to 68mm with matching butterfly and made a 9kw increase on the dyno, so there is room for improvement. ford-4l-and-6-cylinder-f1/68mm-throttle-body-results-t71971.html

I believe you right there Michael, the 2 quickest N/A e-series 6's would be running stock T/B's. I also read that they both (well Grechie at least) were both running un-ported heads as well. Makes me wonder what else these cars were capable of with a well ported head and 68mm T/B.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Improving your 6cyl E-series Throttlebody the DIY way
Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 4:39 pm 
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KWIKXR wrote:
Makes me wonder what else these cars were capable of with a well ported head and 68mm T/B.


dunno mate....... the combinations and results are so different between e-series, i reckon it comes down to which direction the wind is blowing on the track on a given day :)

nice work with the TB though........ certainly looks the goods
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 Post subject: Re: Improving your 6cyl E-series Throttlebody the DIY way
Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 5:32 pm 
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Well yeh like you said mate,It dosnt cost F all so why not? even if it dosnt help at all you still didnt lose money!
I wasnt talking about N/A i was referring to 4ltr-jet (Running 9's) Mikes dyno EA (running low 10's) and another EL in perth that just done a 8 second pass,All using stock TB's.
But as you mentioned Grechie and a few other boys running low 13's n/a are also using stock TB's.
Would be very intereiting to see what cars like them would run with the TB done,More work done to the head ect ect.
Anyway,Mite give this a go one day when im bored :)

 

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 Post subject: Re: Improving your 6cyl E-series Throttlebody the DIY way
Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 6:10 pm 
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Michael (HYPOEB) wrote:
Well yeh like you said mate,It dosnt cost F all so why not? even if it dosnt help at all you still didnt lose money!
I wasnt talking about N/A i was referring to 4ltr-jet (Running 9's) Mikes dyno EA (running low 10's) and another EL in perth that just done a 8 second pass,All using stock TB's.
But as you mentioned Grechie and a few other boys running low 13's n/a are also using stock TB's.
Would be very intereiting to see what cars like them would run with the TB done,More work done to the head ect ect.
Anyway,Mite give this a go one day when im bored :)


its a different story when your forcing air into a engine.but n/a motors need all the help they can get.good mod.
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 Post subject: Re: Improving your 6cyl E-series Throttlebody the DIY way
Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 1:30 pm 
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Firstly to Luke 111, you being 30 should know saying "kilowatts are counted one by one".
And you should be a bit more mature that what you have displayed. Anyhow.
I was told once by an 40 yo mate who had a good knowledge of cars that porting and polishing things (intake manifold, head, throttlebody, anything air flows through) didn't make a difference and it wasn't worth doing.
I agreed with him partially, and I'll explain.

Hypothetical situation.
Factory standard 3.9 falcon engine.
Say we assume that the better flow gives a power boost (altough minimal)
and we decide to put a "KWIKXR" spec T/B, well port match the intake to the head and tweat the head ports too.
All done at home, cost = $minimal

just say from all that we get
1kw for the T/B
3kw from the head
and 1kw from the port match.

That's a (hypothetical) 5 kw gain from doing diddly squat.

So now assume we have a mild engine and it pushes 116 rwkw on the dyno.

Now take "the dumbest modification ever" as above and bolt it on and BOOM!
You go 120 kw at the wheels man! And your under exaggerating too, not hamming it up! (121kw to be exact)

However, what I did agree with was that getting these mods done by a workshop, where the cost/kw gain ratio is not worth it and wouldn't be practical for a street car, of course if you are building a $20,000, 1000 hp drag car methanol engine then you'll probably have a spare $1000 to get that kinda stuff done!

But my main point reflects back to the saying "kilowatts are counted one by one"
it dosnt matter what you do to try and get a gain, no matter how small, cos they all add up!

Think for a little how many potential "neddies" your car has sitting there waiting to be unlocked.
Fan clutches,
A/C units,
Assorted porting and polishing,

I wish dyno-ing was cheaper (and there was a lot more owned by workshops whose managers aren't up themselves, and talk to you like your an idiot just cos they have some sweet equipment)
cos I'd love to play all day seeing what such things did technically.

Hell yeah!

 

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 Post subject: Re: Improving your 6cyl E-series Throttlebody the DIY way
Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 3:05 pm 
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RAPTOR_XR8 wrote:
With an increase of 8% thats a pretty good gain, id be looking at get it possibly bored out to 65mm too.


this 8% increase will only be available at WOT.
At half throttle there wont be any gains, you only notice gains in partial throttle opening when the diametre is bigger.

 

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