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Speed Signal - EF I6 & BTR93LE into EA race shell 

 

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 Post subject: Speed Signal - EF I6 & BTR93LE into EA race shell
Posted: Mon May 11, 2009 10:19 pm 
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HELP!

I'm 90% through fitting an EF 4ltr & trans into an EA dirt ciruit car.

The motor & box came with the car partially fitted, previous owner choked when he relised how much work & tech issues would be involved to complete the job.

I've got most of the loom sorted, but have not found a solution to the speed signal for the integrated PCM / TCM in the EEC-V, which will control the BTR93LE's shifting.

I've worked out (please correct me if i am wrong) that the speedo sensor on the trans signals back to the instrument cluster (red & white wires). There is then a white wire that i figure sends a speed signal to the EEC-V's pin 58.

I've pulled apart an EF's cluster to try and deduce the ciruit involved in taking the speedo sender signal and converting it to send to the EEC-V, but it appears to be tied up in the VDO chips hanging off the clusters double sided PCB board. I was hoping that i could cut what's required out of the PCB borad, but it appears to be a hell of a lot more complicated then that.

From what I can gather, the trans will hold only 3rd gear without the speed signal from the cluster.

I've checked out many forums, & spent many hours googling , but have not found the needle in the hay stack. I guess most people retain a cluster in a conversion, hence this seems to be an odd problem, as I need the gear box to shift without the cluster in the car.

Does anybody know what signal the EEC-V gets sent by the Cluster?

Is it a pulse = to the output of the trans speedo sensor / frequency?
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 Post subject: Re: Speed Signal - EF I6 & BTR93LE into EA race shell
Posted: Mon May 11, 2009 11:22 pm 
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You are correct, no SS signal causes the trans to go into LHM (3rd gear, converter unlocked).
Try running the SS output (white wire)directly to the ECU - I know a member on here that had to do that and reported his transmission worked fine.
You could run an EA TCM as well, run the SS output directly to it, and have it run the transmission - the EEC V ECU would still go to LHM, but won't bother engine control, and a lack of SS input to the ECU would create no speed limiter, which may be handy for your racing.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Speed Signal - EF I6 & BTR93LE into EA race shell
Posted: Tue May 12, 2009 10:12 pm 
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Thanks SNAP,

Had look through my Dad's Gregory’s for his EBII,I noticed that the EBII's have the SS white wire shared between the cruise, speedo and ECU, which supports joining both up to get the speed signal to the EEC-V as you’ve suggested, so that's what I’ll try first up.
Are there any requirements for the SS red wire, or will insulating it do the job given I have no speedo on the end of it?
I guess Ford run the signal to the cluster first on the EF to enable the trick police cluster to allow calibrate of the speedo before the signal goes to the EEC-V.

For the other option, I dug through the Ellery’s manual I have on EA's to ED's, specifically schematic for EA TCM, but it's an Ellery’s manual so it’s generic to all the earlier 4spd autos.

Did the EA series II (given the first EA’s had the Borg Warner M51 3spd) have a standalone TCM for the BTR auto? The later models all seem to have it integrated in the engine ECU package.

Are the plugs at the EAII BTR the same as hose on the later model BTR’s?

Cheers
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 Post subject: Re: Speed Signal - EF I6 & BTR93LE into EA race shell
Posted: Wed May 13, 2009 12:00 am 
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The red wire needs +5v, so keep it connected to the inst cluster.
EA's with the BTR auto (BTR85LE) had the TCM, along with the EBI's.
The round plug into the transmission will most likely be the same, as EB/ED/EF/EL are. The rectangle plug with speed sensor, reverse lights, etc, will probably need some pinouts swapped around.

 

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96 XH Longreach 'S': LPG, Alarm, 3.23:1 LSD, Cruise, Trip Comp, ABS, Power Windows, Mid Series Dome Lt, Climate Ctrl
97 EL Futura S/W: LPG, Alarm, LED int Lts, Trip Comp, F/Lane Dome Lt, Climate Ctrl, T5 Conversion

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 Post subject: Re: Speed Signal - EF I6 & BTR93LE into EA race shell
Posted: Wed May 13, 2009 10:03 am 
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give me a call if your still having issues 1300 663 128
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 Post subject: Re: Speed Signal - EF I6 & BTR93LE into EA race shell
Posted: Wed May 13, 2009 11:01 pm 
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Thanks,

I'm aiming to fire it up this weekend, I'll post the outcome.

Cheers
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 Post subject: EF I6 & BTR93LE into EA race shell
Posted: Mon May 18, 2009 10:03 pm 
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Well, wirings pretty much completed, but not as close as I had hoped to testing out the tranny. Stillworking on getting the car running.

I went for a start this arvo, but no joy. Engine cranked but motor didn't light.

I did some trouble shooting & found the fuel pump relay isn't throwing at all, not when the ignition circuit is first powered, or when cranking.

I checked all the wires out, everything thing checked out per fords original intent, which means the EEC-V is not grounding the relay circuit as it should, hence no relay activation.

I tried a second EEC-V out of a Fairmont that I know is G/C, but still no joy.

For a quick check, I bridged the Fuel pump relay on, then cranked, but engine still didn't light. I didn't get as far as checking spark, as I ran out of day light. Will check that tmrw arvo if i get home from job early enough.

Any suggestions would be much appreciated.

Note: I have a new Smart Lock bypass module wired in at the EEC-V (no BBM or dash in the the race shell), but have no way of knowing if it is functioning properly, so i am curious if this behaviour is in any way similar to an absence of the smart lock code to the EEC-V.
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 Post subject: Re: Speed Signal - EF I6 & BTR93LE into EA race shell
Posted: Mon May 18, 2009 11:31 pm 
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Have you checked for injector pulse during cranking ??
Best way would be to hook up a 12v test light to one of the injector plugs.
Smartlock disables the injectors and starter motor - obviously with no BEM, you've bypassed the starter disable.

 

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96 XH Longreach 'S': LPG, Alarm, 3.23:1 LSD, Cruise, Trip Comp, ABS, Power Windows, Mid Series Dome Lt, Climate Ctrl
97 EL Futura S/W: LPG, Alarm, LED int Lts, Trip Comp, F/Lane Dome Lt, Climate Ctrl, T5 Conversion

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 Post subject: Re: Speed Signal - EF I6 & BTR93LE into EA race shell
Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 2:04 pm 
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The speed sensor problem, been there, spent hours on it.

In your application the best way is to dis-assemble the cluster and remove the speedo circuit board (you don't even need the speedo indicator mechanism). There is a small 4 pin plug on the back. Connections are (in no particular order) 12V+ve, earth, speedo red, speedo white. Stick the speedo circuit board in a box, wire it into your speedo sender & ecu, and tie the box behind the dash.

You can't just send 5V down the red wire. Trust me, I've tried it. Voltage on the red wire rises to about 10V from memory when the speed sender is connected.

I've tried many different ways, but the easiest is to keep the electronics from the speedo connected.

In my application (running a mechanical speedo in a 5.0 / BTR resto-conversion) I had to build a speedo drive splitter so I colud run the cable and the sppedo sender.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Speed Signal - EF I6 & BTR93LE into EA race shell
Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 11:27 pm 
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Snap,

Just read your reply, I've moved on a bit with the trouble shooting, update as follows.

Continued to trouble shoot the fuel pump circuit, turned out the relay was a dud. Replaced it and now fuel pump runs for about a 1sec when ignition circuit goes live (radiator fans also power up momentarily in the same instant which seems odd), I think thats too short a duration, as my recollection is the fuel pumps typically run 2 to 3 seconds from ignition active.
Fuel pump still does not activate when cranking.

The starter feed bypasses the BEM circuit completely. I've pretty much cut everything I believe I didn't need out of a complete EF loom, and shortened up where necessary. As such I have no BEM or respective plugs; starter circuit is independent, but only available when ignition is active.

I have a 4 wire smart lock bypass module installed across the respective wires at the EEC-V connector.

This arvo a jigged up a LED and read the fault codes. I tested both ECU's after having attempted a start, they gave identical code sequences.
Hard Codes: 838, 844, 785, 787, 788, 795, 794, 791, 786,
Memory Codes: 838

I haven’t deciphered the codes yet, well get back to them tomorrow after work. I’ll also put my meter over the injector plugs as suggested and see what that yields.

XA falcon,

Looks like I may still have my work cut out for the SS circuit, but right now I’d be wrapped if it’d just fire up.
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 Post subject: Re: Speed Signal - EF I6 & BTR93LE into EA race shell
Posted: Thu May 21, 2009 12:02 am 
Getting Side Ways
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844 - vehicle immobilised - what smartlock bypass do you have?

786 Performance Indicator Lamp
787 Fuel Pump Circuit
788 A/C Control Relay
789 Recirculation Override Circuit
791 Cooling Fan Relay No 1
792 Cooling Fan Relay No 2
793 Cooling Fan Relay No 3
794 Cooling Fan Relay No 4
795 Inlet Manifold Control Valve
Circuit
837 A/C Evaporator Sensor
(Voltage Low)
838 A/C Evaporator Sensor
(Voltage High)
839 A/C Evaporator Sensor
(Voltage Out of Range)
844 Vehicle Immobilised
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 Post subject: Re: Speed Signal - EF I6 & BTR93LE into EA race shell
Posted: Thu May 21, 2009 8:24 am 
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Bypass Details;
http://cgi.ebay.com/Smartlock-Module-By ... 7C294%3A50

I tested it per instructions before hard wiring; I’ll check it again this afternoon.

The two cooling fan codes have me a bit mystified, but I'll double check the wiring all the same.

Would I be correct to say that the air con related fault codes shouldn't hold back the EEC-V from running the motor & trans once the immobilisation is sorted out?
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 Post subject: Re: Speed Signal - EF I6 & BTR93LE into EA race shell
Posted: Thu May 21, 2009 1:49 pm 
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Another thought,

Does the smart lock immobilisation take out the fuel pump relay, in addition to the injectors.
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 Post subject: Re: Speed Signal - EF I6 & BTR93LE into EA race shell
Posted: Thu May 21, 2009 2:25 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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i've had a few customers with those bypass modules, that didnt work. sent them one of mine and it fired up straight away, so dont be surprised if the bypass is not working.
The fuel pump relay will still prime without a smartlock signal, you just wont get spark and injector pulse.
Fans and aircon stuff wont affect ecu operation, same as when we fit EL ecu's into EA/EB/ED's - none of that stuff is connected, and they run fine.

Make sure you have power to the coil packs and injectors, and pins 55 (constant 12v) , 71 and 97 (switched 12v) of the ecu.

Also make sure there is zero volts between pins 24,25,51,76,77,91,97,103 and ground.
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 Post subject: Re: Speed Signal - EF I6 & BTR93LE into EA race shell
Posted: Thu May 21, 2009 5:02 pm 
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66 Coupe

I'm going to check the pins now, along with the wiring from the EEC-V to fuel pump relay & the two suspect cooling fan relays.

How do you sell your bypass modules, online or direct? How much?

Are yours wire in type or do they plug into the service port of the EEC-V?
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