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All wheel drive falcon 

 

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Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2005 7:21 pm 
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When I was working in ford I remember having a chat about this. Basically it came down to not enough ground clearance and the fact that you would need a total re-design of the front suspension. Also the engine ends up sitting heigher and there is not enough space in the transmission tunnel.

Though I would hate to say it as I hate the idea of performace 4WD's. Better off lowering a territory and dropping in an XR-6T motor. I think we are more likely to see one of those from Ford rather than an AWD falcon. Would always be auto though, territorys don't even have a hole to poke the shifter through in the body and the 4WD drivetrain only integrates with an auto.

 

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 Post subject: Re: All wheel drive falcon
Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2005 7:23 pm 
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XRated wrote:
blackjack_original wrote:
It would take alot more than that for a falcon to crap on the skyline. You're seriously underestimating the nissan. They are lighter, they've got years of experience making and tuning the awd and the suspension on the skyline, their engines are light years beyond the fords i6. I mean when a boosted ba cracked the 1000hp it was pretty big news, but if you look at the rb26dett, they've been cracking the 1000hp + for years with relative ease. And you can't get over the fact that the falcon, even in a "sports" trim is still a glorified familly sedan, wheras the skyline is a true sprts car. It will take alot more than just an awd system on a falcon to make it even come close to a skyline.


Exactly right. Have you any idea how bloody sophisticated the GT-R's AWD system (ATTESA-ETS /Pro) is? Or Subarus? It's a decent decade of engineering, and then tweaking it for another decade.

Don't get me wrong though, it'd be nice to have an Aussie built Ford sedan with AWD and a big blower on top of the 5.4L!


Yeah i know i know, they've got all that g-force sensing stuff, telling the ecu when the thing is going sideways, or when the back wheels are spinning and pushing more power to the front etc. etc. So they are lightyears ahead, but i was trying to say that if Ford had developed it since they had the AWD TX3's years ago (Mazda Familia GT) then by now they would have similar systems and aftermarket support (like the HKS tuning stuff for the attessa system).

Apparently the next GTR wont come out til 2007 anyway and if it looks like the recent Skyline R35 with crappy tailights and a VQ30de engine then it wont float my boat. Therefore Ford should bring something out that is well engineered and looks good with stiff chassis and al that jazz. I mean even Nissan has suffered since they are no longer Japanese owned. I think it was renault or something (correct me if im wrong) that basically took all the performance cars out of Nissan.

But i don't know much anyway. Just wanted a good heated (if a bit dreamy) discussion about how good a 4L turbo or 5+LBlown Ford with all wheel drive handling and acceleration would be.

Cheers for all the replies.

 

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Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2005 3:32 pm 
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joolz wrote:
im sure it will happen in the future but for once ford has taken time making a car that not only looks good but is winning awards!!! basically quality and not quantity....


The AU looked good (easily the best looking Falcon since the XR) and won awards. While the BA engine is certainly an improvement, the styling changes were for the worse.
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Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2005 3:50 pm 
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spj wrote:
joolz wrote:
im sure it will happen in the future but for once ford has taken time making a car that not only looks good but is winning awards!!! basically quality and not quantity....


The AU looked good (easily the best looking Falcon since the XR) and won awards. While the BA engine is certainly an improvement, the styling changes were for the worse.


There's always one

(you're in the minority mate)

 

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Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2005 6:06 pm 
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JOSE wrote:
data_mine wrote:
Buy a BA and an AWD Territory - unbolt territory body and falcon body, swap. AWD falcon, RWD territory.


If it was THAT simple, it would have happened by now.....


It actually did happen, Ford built 3 prototype BA Falcons running AWD Territory running gear, to test the AWD setup for the Territory. It would be nice to pick one of those up, however they probably got destroyed after the trial.

 

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Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2005 7:34 pm 
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data_mine wrote:
The AU looked good (easily the best looking Falcon since the XR) and won awards. While the BA engine is certainly an improvement, the styling changes were for the worse.


There's always one

(you're in the minority mate)[/quote]

I'll admit the AU shape grews on me when i was driving one of mom's work ones around for a while.
But originally I thought it wasn't so crash hot. I remember when I first bought my EF, i was driving in moms EB telling my mate about the car I just bought and we drove past an AU taxi and he said is that what yours looks like, and i said nay, that's too new, and pointed to an EL (he wouldn't pick the difference), and then he made some comment about the old ones looking better and newer than the AU's.
The BA's just awsome looking! Specially with the buldge.

 

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Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2005 4:07 am 
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I have the article with the BA Falcons with the AWD running gear in them at home.

As for the AU being a nice looking car and being better than the current models .... you've got to be kidding ... the AU nearly killed Ford Australia.

I didn't mind the EB/ED shape .. the EF/EL was an awesome shape .... I really liked it ... the AU sucked a** ... and then the BA came along and saved the day.

It's a close call between the BA and EF/EL shape ... I love both ... but I'd have to go with the BA (as it is newer ... just a bit more stylish as well) over the EF/EL ... but there's not much in it.

 

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 Post subject: Re: All wheel drive falcon
Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2005 4:45 am 
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kdford wrote:
XRated wrote:
blackjack_original wrote:
It would take alot more than that for a falcon to crap on the skyline. You're seriously underestimating the nissan. They are lighter, they've got years of experience making and tuning the awd and the suspension on the skyline, their engines are light years beyond the fords i6. I mean when a boosted ba cracked the 1000hp it was pretty big news, but if you look at the rb26dett, they've been cracking the 1000hp + for years with relative ease. And you can't get over the fact that the falcon, even in a "sports" trim is still a glorified familly sedan, wheras the skyline is a true sprts car. It will take alot more than just an awd system on a falcon to make it even come close to a skyline.


Exactly right. Have you any idea how bloody sophisticated the GT-R's AWD system (ATTESA-ETS /Pro) is? Or Subarus? It's a decent decade of engineering, and then tweaking it for another decade.

Don't get me wrong though, it'd be nice to have an Aussie built Ford sedan with AWD and a big blower on top of the 5.4L!


Yeah i know i know, they've got all that g-force sensing stuff, telling the ecu when the thing is going sideways, or when the back wheels are spinning and pushing more power to the front etc. etc. So they are lightyears ahead, but i was trying to say that if Ford had developed it since they had the AWD TX3's years ago (Mazda Familia GT) then by now they would have similar systems and aftermarket support (like the HKS tuning stuff for the attessa system).

Apparently the next GTR wont come out til 2007 anyway and if it looks like the recent Skyline R35 with crappy tailights and a VQ30de engine then it wont float my boat. Therefore Ford should bring something out that is well engineered and looks good with stiff chassis and al that jazz. I mean even Nissan has suffered since they are no longer Japanese owned. I think it was renault or something (correct me if im wrong) that basically took all the performance cars out of Nissan.

But i don't know much anyway. Just wanted a good heated (if a bit dreamy) discussion about how good a 4L turbo or 5+LBlown Ford with all wheel drive handling and acceleration would be.

Cheers for all the replies.


nice comments guys, the falcon will never be able to put it other the GTR, as blackjack said it is light years infront when it comes to technology!

and for the note, the legendaqry GTR will not be carrying the popular skyline name any more.. it will simply be called the R35 GTR :wink:

love them cars... *dream :P *

 

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Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 10:39 am 
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back in the 80's they built an awd I6 turbo it just never hit production line...and dont underestermate ford they do have the technology maybe they just think the falcon is more of a rwd car than an awd they could always build a smaller version 8 or 6 tubo with the awd running gear holdens doing it ya dunno whats around the corner....i mean 2.6 vs 4.0 they maybe lighter but they dont mean ford cant do anything about that
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Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 2:38 pm 
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*smirks* rumour had it that the twin turbo'd AWD XF's were a fair match for ferrari's and porches for performance

 

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Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 9:42 pm 
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holden are great for doing all these different designs and models and concept car but they are now in finacial debit because of it, they will never go bust but they are making big changes to there designs now because they have so many different makes and designs unlike ford the falcon and say fairlane are same chasis where as the comodore and a caprice are different and so on then you have monaro the 4 wd thing the 427 monaro with billet aloy front end its all good but people just dont have money to buy them to cover there cost.

my aunties husband works as a interior designer at holden he told me this.

 

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Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2005 9:17 am 
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i was thinking were u refuring to just aussie ford or wut? coz the mustang would be mint awd...and also they have the cosworth which ppl are getting them 0 - 100 in less than 4secs ;o and theres also the focus rally car with the v8 conversion
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Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2005 3:25 pm 
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Troy wrote:
and theres also the focus rally car with the v8 conversion


I've been wondering about whether it would be possible to import one of the AWD Turbo Focus' from europe and how much it would cost. But then again the biggest problem would probably come with the SEVS import rules not allowing certain models(those b%$ST&@$). People will probably disagree but i reckon these things would be able to put it to WRX's on the road with the right mods. I mean they do it on the rally tracks don't they.If you couldn't get it for use on the road you could always use it as a race car... (oh if i had money :( ) And then you could have the V8 Falcon for cruising and the turbo Focus for a bit of weekend hillclimb or rally.
Anyway, thats my two cents

 

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Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2005 8:35 pm 
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you could always just import one of the turbo AWD focuses, and buy a local one and swap the goodies into it (or maybe just the little metal tags)

 

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Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2005 2:01 am 
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I can`t beleive some of the stuff I am reading, Ford could definitely kill the GTR`s, they have the money ,the resources, Geez look what they did with the sierras and they were only slapped together.Do you forget the rs200 escort it was a beast in its own right.But hey you guys are talking about a falcon hey.

Well what psi is the GTR running ? I bet its a lot more than 6 psi that the xr6T is running,what the falcon needs is a bloody diet thats what it needs,
As far as technology the turbo technology used where you don`t even need to run a turbo timer because they thought ahead and put a failsafe system in that keeps the coolant flowing to cool the oil down even when the engine is switched off is unbeleivable. And then to top it off the handling off the newBA`s is unbelivable, The suspension set up is better than anything holden have to offer, and I wouldn`t be suprised if it was more advanced than nissans.Everybody sees a 2 door car an automatically thinks that it handles. And one more thing a little bit off topic,these cars are great at drifting.

thats all from me folks,but don`t underestimate the humble falc.
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