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BTR 4 speed auto TRANSMISSION CONTROLLER 

 

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Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 7:18 pm 
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we can all talk , but only one way to find out
start something

but where does one start ??

a engine management system i would have to say is totally different to a trany controller

Just bought a EB falcon MPFI 4 speed auto for $100 dollars have a tested bed to start seeing what happens

will get some high pressure gauges fit them to the tranny , temp gauges
a few on/off switches , will get a vairable risistor pack and so on lets see how this sucker really works start playing on the dyno

on the early EA falcon 4speed auto i have to probe with a multimeter and see whats happening on the EB onwards i have electrajet which hooks up direct to the factory ECU and i can see waveforms and voltages frequencys of all the internals of the transmission solenoids no need for a multimeter here

will back probe and see what the S5 solenoid pulse frequency is at varying driving conditions lets see what the ford controller does here

what microprocessor to use MMMMMMMMMMMMMM ????? will speak to a few people and see what they come up with

keep u posted
cheers

 

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Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 1:07 pm 
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Hi guys, I've been considering trying to put together a controller for my 4spd box for a while, and have a spare MRM (http://www.robominds.com/)
which uses an MC68332, so count me in. I'm an electronic engineer, currently undertaking a PhD - so while I don't have much time I'm sure I could lend a hand. Basically I code in C/C++ all day long atm so helping to code is no problem either. Hopefully we can get a reasonable working group together and make this happen, as some tuning for the box is something that everyone with even basic mods would like. As far as needing to design for EVERY shift ie 4-1 1-4 etc etc, if you go about designing the system as a sequential controller with manual paddle/button shift, you can remove all but the direct shifts, ie 1-2 2-3 etc, at the expense of flexibility, which would be a good starting point. Later that could be expanded to full automatic control. I know it sounds crazy to electrically manualise the box, but its probably the best starting point. If you really need full automatic, the system could be designed to pass thru to the original auto controller by either a separate button, or using the econ switch until it con control everything itself.


Justin
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Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 2:10 pm 
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A good idea, to manualise it... but that would only get rid of the parameters of when to shift, not how... I think the problem with shifting is how? But ofcourse taking this in steps is alot easier than designing everything at once. The MC68323 seems like a very promising chip indeed! But at $60+ each, or 36 for AUS$ 2,205.31 is a bit pricey. (From RS components).. perhaps you get them cheaper somewhere, but Im assuming they don't get THAT much cheaper? Perhaps something a little less-featured will be more applicable to a DIY budget controller?


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Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2006 1:16 am 
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Definately something cheaper would be the go, I just suggested it because thats what I happen to have lying around, and really the 68332 is targeted to be used for a full PCM or robotics control not just a trans controller so yes its massively over featured.

All you really need is a few A/D converter channels (to read sensors) some on/off style outputs, and a couple of PWM channels. So probably even a staver or basic stamp would do the job (but I wouldn't want to try with something so underpowered). Hell with dedicated electronics to do PWM and A/D you could use something VERY VERY cheap, but would you really want to, it adds to the design complexity and makes programming harder.

If the 68332 (perhaps a slightly cheaper chip ie 68HC912D60A) could do the job and only requires about $50-100 in extra electronics then you have a system thats only $110-170 (68332) or $65-115 (68HC912D60A). Tho the prices are probably unrealistic, the electronics involved aren't that expensive, as has been said further up its more the design of the algorithms that will be time consuming and troublesome. Basically what I'm saying is why go for REALLY cheap and have a pain even trying to get something working, when you can buy a fully featured chip and know that testing and design will be much easier. Even if it costs $3-400 to the end user its a damn sight cheaper than an engine management system, and quite frankly a 68332 with another say $2-300 of electronics basically gets you the equivalent of a motec/autronic if you can program everything right.


Having said all of that I'm happy to work with what ever everyone chooses. I've heard that there is an extention in the works for the MS2 to allow trans control, so perhaps someone can shed some light on what their doing, no use reinventing the wheel if you don't have to.

Justin
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Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2006 1:38 am 
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Yes, Ive heard about the MegaShift, but its still in development I think, and they are waiting for the router board... which should be available soon.

Underpowered is not good... I guess its just hard to grasp paying over $100 for something that doesn't even exist yet.

Can't seem to find any information on the 68HC912D60A... you have a data sheet? or perhaps a site for them? Im assuming they are of Freescales creation?


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Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2006 9:53 am 
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hi
OK , seems there is a large interested in this fordmods forum for some form of a BTR 4 speed tranny controller.

IF a Motorola 68HC912D60A microprocessor is between $60 and $120 australian that is not a large sum of money for me . Rather than starting from scratch and designing a bread board working model and then doing all the rest of the work involves more labor work.

Don't get me wrong im not scared of more labor .

Like one of the gentleman said before a engine management system u pay over a $1000 theses days.

Have a look in parts peddler a australian spare parts mag that circulates right around a australia there is a guy importing ( http://www.compushift.com/compushift.htm ) one of the systems i mentioned earlier in this thread and his selling the tranny controller over $2800 australian dollars with the hand held controller.

I spoke with the people in the united states and been inform that and the other units cannot control the BTR 4 speed australian box more designed to control chevy 4speed electronic boxs.

So how much time and money does one throw at this idea MMMMMMMMM ?????????? don't know .

But seems a lot of people are willing to help with there working back grounds in electronics and software writing.

I did do fortran77 , basic and pascal back 24 years ago when i was at university studying bachelor of applied sciences until i stuffed up my studies and now have become a mechanic . So i can learn againg when it comes to programming like i said in one of the threads im a fast learner.

I have no problems with purchasing Motorola 68HC912D60A microprocessor of some sort that can take input sensor signal as TPS , engine speed coil negative or distributor/crank/camshaft angle sensors water coolant temp , map/airflow meter sensors , vehicle speed sensor, transmission oil temp and so on and do the mathematical calculations and then control the outputs of transmission solenoids to do the driving of the tranny to what every one programs it to do.

So where do we start with a Motorola 68HC912D60A microprocessor that's a universally built unit or start from scratch and build our own unit that has all the required features to control the tranny.

or sit back and watch MegaSquirt ( MegaShift ) Transmission controller been built

Wouldn't it be a idea to see whats inside a EA or early EB tranny module that ford placed in these cars before they made the ECM become a PCM

the chip and drivers im sure will be a standard items of the self from electronics shops


cheers

 

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Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2006 10:08 am 
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hi

" So how much time and money does one throw at this idea MMMMMMMMM ?????????? don't know . "

do a select few from this forum group , who ever they maybe taking part in such a idea of a BTR 4 speed electronic controller

leave this open to everyone to take advantage of the groups effort for free ????????

I sure MegaShift will not be free.

cheers

 

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Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2006 2:12 pm 
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Yeah the 68HC912D60A is a freescale processor, best place to look is
http://www.freescale.com/webapp/sps/sit ... 468636g3Jm

which has all of the info you could ever want or need. Its actually an older product but you can still get it, tho they don't recommend using it for new designs as its old technology to them. Anything that can be done in C or C++ would be preferable and IIRC this chip would have to be done in ASM as I don't think there is a free c++ compiler for it (could be wrong and haven't looked very hard). In my free time (ermmm yes whats that) I'll get the 68332 board up and running and do a little test programming to refresh myself on the flashing procedure etc. Remember that a fully funtioning 68332 board with 512K flash 32K ram, all pinouts, regulator etc so you don't have to do anything but design a daughter board with the electronics you want can be bought from http://www.robominds.com/ for $89 american. While this may sound expensive consider that it has surface mount everything and arrives in working condition ready to be programmed. So while it may have cost me much more than that for all the programming cables etc, the final product would only need one of these boards + daughter board + case + wiring. So if it comes in at say $400 thats all it costs. So to answer the earlier question, YES I WILL PUT IN MY TIME FOR FREE, I very much believe in the open source movement as if people start building them and downloading the software and want something to be fixed/made better they can have a go themselves and maybe even make the whole product better for everyone else. For the immediate future I'de say wait for the MS2 extension and see what comes of it. If it doesn't work, then we'll just have to start working on it. If it does work, then this is all moot point anyway.

Justin
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Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2006 6:45 pm 
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Open source is definately the go... no point doing this as a closed project, need everyones input.
In terms of coding, if ASM is avoidable, that would be great lol! C++ would be awesome, but C is good too.

Im on the same boat, Ill put my time in for free, but Im not contributing to a project that will make money... the code and schematics should be completely open. You take some, you give some.


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Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2006 9:17 am 
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Ok its out to the fordmods forum group and anyone else who wants to help

Seems a few of you guys know the insides of the microprocessor

instead of buy or making a new processor would it be possible to make the EA and some early EB falcons had a separate transmission module to run the BTR 4 speed automatic programmable

All the instruction and ford program would already be in the module just a matter of working it all out

all the drivers are there just a means of a way of making it programmable via a laptop connection

I know im making it sound easy but i imagine its not going to be a easy task

It may involve retrofitting the factory ford transmission module or modifying it to accept a Static Ram eeprom and so on.

the unit is half the size of a EEC4 ECU and all the components are there inside the module
Hack into the ford unit and see what makes the module tick



any thoughts on this guys

 

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Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2006 10:45 am 
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This would be easier, if it was that easy lol.
If you want to use the ford module, on-the-fly programming and tuning would not be possible. It'll be a flash, and then drive sequence. Modifying the TCM to run flash, AND to make it tune on the fly will require quite alot of code modification, and before there can be code modification, you need to disassemble it. Also, all the default parameters are secured in there.

It's definately not an easy task. Oh and if you want to use a laptop for the tuning on the fly, it will also require more hardware (MAX232), with the needed capacitor bank, and other various bits and peices, and then write more code to accept the serial signal, and make some use of it. Also then you have to write software for the computer to be able to communicate with the TCM..

As much as I hate to say this, it will definately not be a very easy task. Im still willing to help though :-D



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Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2006 11:21 am 
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anyone have one they can crack open. It may be like the EEC and have a 'J3' port on it. Cause ytou can then emulate it using a laptop, and changes made may occur 'on the fly'.

 

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Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2006 11:24 am 
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Im pretty sure the J3 connector was just an interpreter.. meaning it manipulates the input to get a different out (more or less)? If so, thats not really programming the TCM, just manipulating it, meaning there's only so far you can go.


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Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2006 2:18 pm 
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I think we should use the ATMEGA series of chips. I have had alot of experience with these and they are really good. Can program in C or assembly, heaps of tools and supprt out there. And they are damn cheap.

go to http://www.futurlec.com.au/ATMegaControlBoard.jsp

Only $44

You would only need Mosfet drivers for the solenoid control and some power and filtering circuitry for the analogue stage. I already have software that I wrote to control a electromagnetic sequential gearbox from a motorbike - a project I did in final year uni that has a structure for timing and controlling sequences of events.

We need someone who can program in windows to do that side of the interface.

 

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Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2006 2:23 pm 
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I can do the programming in windows for the interface (hopefully not by myself though). The ATMEGA chip is looking good.
A good point on the MOSFET, we would need some of the solenoids parameters, to determine what type of MOSFETs we'd be needing, and also a MOSFET driver.


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