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Changed T5 Gearbox now it whines through 1st, 2nd, 3rd 

 

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 Post subject: Changed T5 Gearbox now it whines through 1st, 2nd, 3rd
Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 12:36 pm 
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Firstly, this is my first post so sorry if this is in the wrong section or it's been posted before.

I drive a 97 EL futura factory manual and i just replaced the gearbox as my old one developed a pretty bad habit of kicking out of second gear while i was shifting at low revs...

i put a second hand T5 from an xr6 in as the replacement, i replaced oil seal at the tail shaft end and cleaned it up and that's about all i did to it before the install. it fit in perfectly and i had no hiccups with the installation (apart from loosing my sh*t trying to get a hex key to fit the drain plugs for the box)

i'm almost certain i filled the box with about 2L of dex 3 until it was almost coming out of the top drain plug, however it was 12.30 so i could have been hallucinating...

the box is a dream compared to the old one, shifts perfectly etc. the only problem is a whine witch i'm assuming is coming from the box as i accelerate (sounds like a softer version of the noise you get when reversing fast). I can only hear it through first, second and third, getting fainter through each until it disappears. If i engage the clutch it disappears, if i let go of the accelerator and let it roll it disappears (regardless of the speed) it makes no noise while in idle or in neutral.

after some reading of similar descriptions i keep seeing input shaft bearing, basically i am wondering what people think it is, and how much of a problem is it. Should i be replacing it again asap or do i just put up with the noise for a while?

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 Post subject: Re: Changed T5 Gearbox now it whines through 1st, 2nd, 3rd
Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 2:23 pm 
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Sounds like the input shaft bearing may be worn......the others may not be too far behind either.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Changed T5 Gearbox now it whines through 1st, 2nd, 3rd
Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 2:45 pm 
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Definitely input shaft bearing.

You will need a bearing puller to remove the bearing from the input shaft, and a press to put the new one on.

Changing the input bearing will most likely change the main shaft pre-load, so you will need to do the following to ensure the correct pre-load is applied.
1. You need to bolt up the bearing retainer, with the bearing race only, no shims.
2. Measure end-play with a dial gauge.
3. Get shims for the race that are 0.01mm to 0.1mm larger than the measurement on the dial gauge.

*Pre-load is assuming it is an EB2-onward gearbox.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Changed T5 Gearbox now it whines through 1st, 2nd, 3rd
Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 4:25 pm 
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Is there a noise in 4th & 5th ??

 

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 Post subject: Re: Changed T5 Gearbox now it whines through 1st, 2nd, 3rd
Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 4:44 pm 
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Thanks guys well that's not the news i was hoping for :? ,

how big of a job is it to replace the input shaft bearing? better yet is it even worth it or do i just start looking for another box?

no, there's only noise in third when i shift then it fades completely, and there is no noise at all no matter how hard i push it through 4th or 5th.
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 Post subject: Re: Changed T5 Gearbox now it whines through 1st, 2nd, 3rd
Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 4:53 pm 
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MAD wrote:
Definitely input shaft bearing.

You will need a bearing puller to remove the bearing from the input shaft, and a press to put the new one on.

Changing the input bearing will most likely change the main shaft pre-load, so you will need to do the following to ensure the correct pre-load is applied.
1. You need to bolt up the bearing retainer, with the bearing race only, no shims.
2. Measure end-play with a dial gauge.
3. Get shims for the race that are 0.01mm to 0.1mm larger than the measurement on the dial gauge.

*Pre-load is assuming it is an EB2-onward gearbox.


Could i take the input shaft with the bearing out of the old gearbox i have? the problems i had with the old one were synchro/gear wearing related, it never made the whining noise this one did... i'm just thinking to save myself from having to pull the bearing and press the new one on as i don't have a press or puller...
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 Post subject: Re: Changed T5 Gearbox now it whines through 1st, 2nd, 3rd
Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 5:03 pm 
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Yeah you could do that.
Make sure you use the bearing race from that box too.

You should definitely still check the pre-load.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Changed T5 Gearbox now it whines through 1st, 2nd, 3rd
Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 5:04 pm 
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It's not particularly difficult, but you need access to some tools that are not in your standard tool box.

Maybe give a few gearbox joints a call and see what they will charge. I'd take a guess at $150. (I could be miles off)

Where in Melb are you? I had great service from The Gearbox Centre in Keysborough many years ago.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Changed T5 Gearbox now it whines through 1st, 2nd, 3rd
Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 5:21 pm 
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thanks mad,

i'll look at changing it over with the one from the old box, it doesn't particularly have to be in the best condition at the moment i just need it driveable for the time being.. i'll have to do some reading of some T5 rebuild threads or something to better understand whats involved i think.. at the moment i would say it's along the lines of removing the input shaft retaining plate, take the shaft out and slide the new one in, i'm assuming it's a bit more complex...

i'm around the Doncaster area, it's probably a good idea to give some places a call before i bother stuffing around with it myself.
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 Post subject: Re: Changed T5 Gearbox now it whines through 1st, 2nd, 3rd
Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 5:38 pm 
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It is pretty much that simple to remove the shaft.
You just need to rotate the input shaft until a notch lines up that allows it to come out.


http://www.allfordmustangs.com/techarti ... manual.pdf
Covers World-class (EB2-onward) and non-world class (XF-EB1)


The only pre-requisite for you to be able to swap input shafts is that both gearboxes are the same style (WC or non-WC).

 

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 Post subject: Re: Changed T5 Gearbox now it whines through 1st, 2nd, 3rd
Posted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 4:04 pm 
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I think you should probably strip down the box you have out, and get it sorted. It's best to source rebuild kits from the US, such as thegearbox.org, etc. Do it properly and your chances of later probs will be reduced.
You can touch up synchro teeth with a sharpening stone if they're burred. Or use the synchros from the installed box later.
You can get bearings off like the IP shaft ones by removing the outer race cage with pliers, and use an angle grinder with a thin disc to nearly cut through the inner, and carefully hit the cut with a chisel to split it, and it will slide off - wash and degrease the shaft, dry, and spray with WD40 - it will store in a clean rag for a long time without corroding. Sounds butcherous, but if you're careful, it works.

WC boxes - check for a 'roofing nail' head on the LHS case below and rear of the reversing gear switch.

As cjh has mentioned, other bearings may be marginal as well - only way is to strip the box down, and inspect everything - then replace seals, etc so you have a decent box to install and know how it is inside.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Changed T5 Gearbox now it whines through 1st, 2nd, 3rd
Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 2:06 pm 
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Here is some pics I have of an opened T5....this is a Non WC box, but they aren't that much different, other than a bearing or 2, and the Reverse gear has a type of brake on it, NOT a synchro as others keep saying.

 

 

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 Post subject: Re: Changed T5 Gearbox now it whines through 1st, 2nd, 3rd
Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 2:41 pm 
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Considering that one doesn't have a reverse brake, the straight cut gear teeth on the counter gear and reverse idler look pretty good. Not too much clash wear on the front edges.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Changed T5 Gearbox now it whines through 1st, 2nd, 3rd
Posted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 1:58 am 
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snap0964 wrote:
Considering that one doesn't have a reverse brake, the straight cut gear teeth on the counter gear and reverse idler look pretty good. Not too much clash wear on the front edges.


Built that box a few years ago....I replaced them.......but one day at work, I got bogged, and was having a hard time getting out of it.....nearly ended up going backwards into the creek.....so I fed it heaps, slammed 2nd, on the rev limiter, and got out of the bog.....BUT.....then it wouldn't select 1st gear.....?????.....so I pulled the box out, fitted a 2nd hand one I had here, and started on pulling that one down.......haven't got back to it......yet....
So, the reason the reverse gears look good is because I select 1st before Reverse whilst the foot is on the clutch, doing this, stops the box spinning over, no nashing of teeth.....I was shown that a very long time ago, and never forgot it.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Changed T5 Gearbox now it whines through 1st, 2nd, 3rd
Posted: Fri Jul 05, 2013 1:32 am 
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Yeah, you can select any forward gear to slow the counter gear down before selecting reverse.
That's all the reverse brake does in the later boxes.

 

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