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HUGE BRAKING PROBLEM 

 

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 Post subject: HUGE BRAKING PROBLEM
Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 5:40 pm 
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Ride: 1997 EL Fairmont Ghia

Location: Wodonga
VIC, Australia

Hey everyone, I'm completely new on this site and have not had the chance to introduce myself.
My name is Tyrone, I'm 20, and I own a 1997 EL Fairmont Ghia.
I have a problem with my brakes..
What happens is if I put my foot down in the EL, when I reach about 60km/h, and then try to brake.. The pedal won't push down - at all.
So I have no brakes when this happens..
I have to let the car naturally slow down to about 20km/h then it will brake.
I've replaced the front speed sensors and have bled the brakes, changed brake pads and the discs are freshly machined.
I'm not a genius with cars at all. But maybe it could be the ABS Module itself? Or I'm getting no vacuum?
Could I unplug the ABS and drive, if the problem still happens, then can I rule out that? If so, how do I unplug it?
I just have no idea :S.
ANY suggestions would be greatly appreciated, and many thanks in advanced!

Tyrone.
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 Post subject: Re: HUGE BRAKING PROBLEM
Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 6:30 pm 
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Odds on chance you have a cracked brake booster.
They are only plastic on the EL's and them cracking is very common. Even worse if extractors are installed.

 

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 Post subject: Re: HUGE BRAKING PROBLEM
Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 6:32 pm 
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+1 for busted booster
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 Post subject: Re: HUGE BRAKING PROBLEM
Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 6:33 pm 
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To test the Vacuum operation: With the engine off put your foot on the brake. Start the engine, the pedal should then fall away. If no then you are not getting any vacuum. Also keep an ear out for any hissing that lasts longer than about 2-4 seconds, this indicates a crack in the brake booster (Common E series problem)

 

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 Post subject: Re: HUGE BRAKING PROBLEM
Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 6:38 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Booster seems to be the general consensus. Happened to me a few months ago.. so I did up a thread on how to replace the booster, hope it helps.
Link to thread.

 

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dc_todd wrote:
Cheap pads squeal like cheap hookers, and you can take that to the bank.


Au Fairmont Ghia
My (Old) 95 EF Wagon

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 Post subject: Re: HUGE BRAKING PROBLEM
Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 7:22 pm 
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Age: 25

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Ride: 1997 EL Fairmont Ghia

Location: Wodonga
VIC, Australia

I've tried all this just now.. And the booster seems to be fine, the pedal fall away from my foot once the engine is started.
I also pulled off the vacuum hose and I definately do have vacuum..
What else.... Master cyclinder? :S ABS?
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 Post subject: Re: HUGE BRAKING PROBLEM
Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 7:35 pm 
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Ride: 1997 EL Fairmont Ghia

Location: Wodonga
VIC, Australia

Also, what is the white plug coming off the brake booster that is angled at a right angle, with a black lead that looks like it leads towards the manifold?
If I pull that off, and try and blow into it, should I be able to?
Which way does air flow?
From the manifold to booster, or the booster to the manifold?
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 Post subject: Re: HUGE BRAKING PROBLEM
Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 9:27 pm 
Tyre Shredder
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Ride: 1991 eb1 fairmont

Location: townsville
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the air sucks from booster to manifold and that is happening if the pedal drops when you start up.
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 Post subject: Re: HUGE BRAKING PROBLEM
Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 10:15 pm 
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Tyrone92 wrote:
I've tried all this just now.. And the booster seems to be fine, the pedal fall away from my foot once the engine is started.

Do you hear a persistent hissing noise though? If it's cracked it will still drop, but will hiss for as long as the pedal is pressed.
Tyrone92 wrote:
What else.... Master cyclinder? :S ABS?
Do you see any obvious brake fluid leaks? Check the lines at the master cyl, then underneath the car paying close attention to any joins and also remove the wheels and check bleed nipples and caliper/line joins.
Tyrone92 wrote:
Also, what is the white plug coming off the brake booster that is angled at a right angle, with a black lead that looks like it leads towards the manifold?
If I pull that off, and try and blow into it, should I be able to?
Which way does air flow?
From the manifold to booster, or the booster to the manifold?

The white plug and lead is actually your vac line and valve, if you disconnect it from the booster side and blow into it you should hear a hissing from the intake manifold. It connects to a vacuum tree at the rear of the manifold.
Air flow is suction from the manifold to the booster.

 

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dc_todd wrote:
Cheap pads squeal like cheap hookers, and you can take that to the bank.


Au Fairmont Ghia
My (Old) 95 EF Wagon

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 Post subject: Re: HUGE BRAKING PROBLEM
Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 10:33 pm 
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Ride: 1997 EL Fairmont Ghia

Location: Wodonga
VIC, Australia

I've check for leaks everywhere, haven't found any.
There isn't a hissing noise, just the normal noise when the pedal is pressed down.
Just sounds like... Hydraulics lol. The normal brake pedal sound.... I think.
Like.. Brakes work fine, but 2/5 times when I need to slow down, they don't.
Should I put it on a dyno and make the problem happen with a computer hooked upto it?
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 Post subject: Re: HUGE BRAKING PROBLEM
Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 10:36 pm 
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Age: 25

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Joined: 30th Oct 2012

Ride: 1997 EL Fairmont Ghia

Location: Wodonga
VIC, Australia

Also, the valve in the plug/lead.. Is it a non-return valve?
If so, does this mean that if I unplug it from the booster, I SHOULDNT be able to blow air from the plug to the manifold?
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 Post subject: Re: HUGE BRAKING PROBLEM
Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 5:47 am 
Tyre Shredder
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Ride: 1991 eb1 fairmont

Location: townsville
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yes you should that is a vacuum hose to suck air from the booster which is what makes the pedal lighter to apply. if you are getting a whooshing when you use the brakes then vacuum is leaking at the booster. visually check for cracks on the booster, if all else fails go to a brake shop and they should be able to diagnose the problem.
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 Post subject: Re: HUGE BRAKING PROBLEM
Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 10:38 am 
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Tyrone92 wrote:
I've check for leaks everywhere, haven't found any.
There isn't a hissing noise, just the normal noise when the pedal is pressed down.
Just sounds like... Hydraulics lol. The normal brake pedal sound.... I think.
Like.. Brakes work fine, but 2/5 times when I need to slow down, they don't.
Should I put it on a dyno and make the problem happen with a computer hooked upto it?
Ok as it's not happening every time you apply the brakes I'm starting to lean away from a booster leak. (Still, don't rule it out) It could be the piston in the master cyl sticking or a caliper seizing. But in my experience when the master cyl goes it's the seals around the piston, you end up with brake fluid leaking down the firewall and you lose all braking. When the problem presents itself does the car pull more to one side or just have no brakes at all.
Computer on a dyno won't show anything related to braking.
I'd be very hesitant about driving the car anywhere. Best advice I can give is find a brake shop in the yellow pages, give them a call and explain the situation. Odds are they'll say 'bring it in and we'll have a look' but tell them you aren't keen on driving the car like that as it's unsafe. If they're more about customers than money (highly unlikely, but you never know) they may point you in a direction we've overlooked on here.

 

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dc_todd wrote:
Cheap pads squeal like cheap hookers, and you can take that to the bank.


Au Fairmont Ghia
My (Old) 95 EF Wagon

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 Post subject: Re: HUGE BRAKING PROBLEM
Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 3:31 pm 
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Ride: 1997 EL Fairmont Ghia

Location: Wodonga
VIC, Australia

It doesn't pull to one side at all, just brakes fails.
I'm starting to think it could be something with the master cylinder..
I have called up every brake specialist where I live, and they say they can't deal with it as they don't deal with pre 2000 model cars, or cars with ABS, etc etc.
Is the master cylinder the metal thing that's bolted onto the Booster?
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 Post subject: Re: HUGE BRAKING PROBLEM
Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 6:23 pm 
Tyre Shredder
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Ride: 1991 eb1 fairmont

Location: townsville
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try calling brakemart in townsville on 07 47252111 terry is an e-series owner and enthusiast and the whole crew there seems to really know their stuff.
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