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Koni & Bilstein that much better than BOGE or ULtima??? 

 

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Koni & Bilstein that much better than BOGE or ULtima???
10% better 3%  3%  [ 1 ]
20% better 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
30% better 7%  7%  [ 2 ]
40% better 3%  3%  [ 1 ]
50% better 20%  20%  [ 6 ]
60% better 7%  7%  [ 2 ]
70% better 10%  10%  [ 3 ]
80% better 3%  3%  [ 1 ]
90% better 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
100% better 47%  47%  [ 14 ]
Total votes : 30

 

 

 
 Post subject: Koni & Bilstein that much better than BOGE or ULtima???
Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 9:26 am 
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Hey guys,

Ive read a post about feedback on Koni red shocks in a E series falcon and the user was not happy with them for some reason and just waiting on a reason why.

So now ive read so many good feedback about Koni and Bilstein that i figured they must be that good but i was also thinking how much better are they if you can out a percentage to it???

Ive used Boge short shocks all round with Pedders sports ryder springs and found the front to be nice and firm but the rear abit softer which i have read alot of others have experienced as well. Overall the front is great and a workshop said to me just to change the rear to koni reds and replace all springs to adjust height to what i wanted and leave the front Boge shocks as there really good. This made me think hey these Boge must not be far off from the like of koni and Bilstein???

If anyone has some feedback please post as im keen to see what your experiences are with the brands mentioned and if koni and bilstein are really much much better???

I would like my EF XR6 to feel some what like a New HSV but i know it may not be possible due to everything being different in both cars, so even if i get 70% of the ride, comfort and handling characterics ill be a happy.

So should i really go for Koni or Bilstein shocks with king springs???
or use Boge or Ultima with king springs???

Because the shocks are practically double the price so should i get double the benefits of a better ride, comfort and handling characteristics??? Im not too fussed on handling as i drive my cars normal and dont speed and fly around corners.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Koni & Bilstein that much better than BOGE or ULtima???
Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 11:50 am 
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I cant really say what the benefit over Boge or Ultima as I've only ever had standard or Koni.

The koni's are MILES ahead of any stock item, they are adjustable and cheaply rebuildable (if you ever need to), I had a set on my XF with superlows for 7 years and they were still fantastic at keeping the springs under control.

I think the main suggestion for getting koni's for the rear is I think they are the only mob that do a rear shock to suit super and ultra low heights.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Koni & Bilstein that much better than BOGE or ULtima???
Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 12:10 pm 
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I dont know how good the Koni ones are (i imagine they are pretty good), but ive heard nothing but great things about Bilstein's. In fact if i had the money to redo the suspension in my car i would definately go with Bilstein shocks all round on Dobinsons springs. I have also heard good things about Boge shocks as many people use them so i dont know how they compare to Koni and Bilstein.

A suspension place down the road from where i used to work recommended nothing but Bilstein if i had money to spend in that area on my EF Fairmont. The guy who owned the joint had a EF Fairmont V8 wagon as his work car, lowered on bilsteins with reset leafs and modified front springs and this thing drove like a dream, ride quality is awesome, very smooth and very low but also nice and firm at the front and rear. Currently im suffering the same soft feeling at the rear end with my Pedders setup although it does handle very well overall. The rear does need to be about 30mm lower to even it out but i think i need a set of better shocks to firm things up a bit.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Koni & Bilstein that much better than BOGE or ULtima???
Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 5:28 pm 
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The old boges i've examined had good design, materials and manufacture.

Konis have all that and tend to have good valving, are adjustable, last a long time and then are rebuildable. Koni red are more for the comfort guy, but with hd coils you need to adjust the rebound up one turn.

I was in an EF once and the guy had put Bilstein Sport shocks on with std coils and with four blokes in the car on a heavily uneven and undulating country road driven hard the car was very comfortable and yet at the same time very controlled and never seemed to bottom out no matter how hard he drove. Twas very impressive.

If you have the cash, i've never heard of anyone regretting getting either koni or bilstein, but you would regret it if you didn't have the car for a while to get your money's worth.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Koni & Bilstein that much better than BOGE or ULtima???
Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 8:45 pm 
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Probably have to keep the car for 5 yrs to get my moneys worth

As koni are 2.5 times in price compared to Boge or Ultima i would hope im getting that much better ride, comfort and handling characteristics. I would expect them to be 70% better than my previous boges i have used.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Koni & Bilstein that much better than BOGE or ULtima???
Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 8:51 pm 
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Im mainly looking at is daily driving as that what i do 90% of the time. I dont fly around corners or anything like that so thats why im asking this question is they feel that much better in normal standard day to day driving???

Using koni shock would that make the car stop more quickly???

 

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 Post subject: Re: Koni & Bilstein that much better than BOGE or ULtima???
Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 2:09 am 
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I haven't tried Ultima or Boge (aren't Ultima cheapo Chinese brand?) - but here's what I put in another thread just a short time ago:

Things I've tried in my ED:

Monroe Sensatrak shockies - crap, stay away from them.
Monroe GT Premium + King Low springs (ie. same height as std XR6) - crap, stay away from them.

Pedders Sports Ryder Shocks with King Low Springs - mmm, ok but nothing special - bit harsh.

KYB Shockies with King Low springs - very decent - very similar to Sports Ryders but not quite as harsh - nothing special for handling tho - IMO ideal replacement for OEM Shocks on a std car.

Koni Reds with King Low springs - lovely ride especially on smooth roads and overall very nice ride on all sorts of surfaces tho tending harsh on really choppy surfaces - handling performance shockingly POOR!! Absolutely nothing special and with a nasty tendency to make a diagonal balance shift partway thru corners - especially nasty at high speed on sweeping bends.

Koni Yellows with King Low springs - very similar to the reds above but overall firmer and somewhat better for handling tho still POOR!! Same nasty balance shift - and I tried adjusting in all possible ways to sort it and never made any headway - finally one of the front ones started vomiting oil from the adjuster head and vendor would not help me at all - "must be using them incorrectly" - yeah, as in I was foolish enough to fit them to a car....

Gabriel VST shockies with King Low springs - excellent all round for ride AND handling - Variable Sensing Technology valving works marvellously - feels like active suspension where in corners the inside settles a bit whilst outside firms up - handling amazing - balance lovely. BUT - they crapped out in only 5000km. was going to just buy them by the carton and settle for changing them every few months but decided to try Bilsteins first (wasn't expecting much after the dismal failure of the much vaunted Konis).

Bilstein shockies with King Low springs - haven't looked back - really good ride with fantastic handling - similar type of variable valving response to the Gabriels (tho not quite as good!) - good way to describe their ride is: have ridden in late model Commondung SS V8 and by comparison the Commondung feels less firm on smooth to gentle bumps but harsher on sharper bumps than the Bilsteins in my ED - even really choppy dirt roads are quite decent to drive on in my ED with the Bilsteins. Have driven over same dirt road (talking about 10km) in Forrester XT and my ED and the ED felt MUCH more comfortable and handled way BETTER.

With both the Gabriels and Bilsteins, the harder you push the car in corners (within reason of course) the better it seems to just hunker down and STICK - and soak up chop and irregularities without coming unstuck or skipping about - amazing and wonderful experience - I find myself thinking "holy crap!" with a huge grin on my face.

I used to drive a stock standard Series 1 RX7 many years ago and that's the only other car I ever came across that had the same sort of almost supernatural ability to just hold on and keep it all together when every nerve in your body is screaming that it should all be coming apart.

Sway Bars - I have adjustable Whiteline bars on front and back (Selby) and find them more useful for dialing in front/rear balance than for reducing roll as such - ie. in that respect I actually run overall firmness just a bit more than factory bars - you'd need to be using REALLY good tyres to cope with reducing roll by much more I think. Was constantly messing with the bars during use of all the shockies described above but for the Gabs I just had to make one adjustment and she was apples - and likewise when the Bilsteins went in I just had to tweak the balance once and haven't touched it in 5 years since....

Use Superpro bushes (Nolathane - YUCK!!) - and try Fulcrum for prices as I got extremely good deal on my Bilsteins compared to what anyone else was asking.

edit/additional: of course the commentary above is all related to the shockies - the King Low springs are fine throughout. With Bilsteins - NEVER use variable rate springs - the interaction with the shockies variable valving causes very nasty handling. With normal constant rate Low Kings the Bilsteins are fine.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Koni & Bilstein that much better than BOGE or ULtima???
Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 11:26 am 
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Thats a awsome read dude

Thanks for the feedback

 

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 Post subject: Re: Koni & Bilstein that much better than BOGE or ULtima???
Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 1:09 pm 
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No worries - definitely do yourself a favour and get Bilsteins - sell a kidney or put your Mrs on the game if you have to....

Keep in mind that up until 3 years ago we were driving from Broome to Cairns and back again once a year for 7 years - last 3 of those trips were with the Bilstein setup.

As a matter of interest I'm about to change cars - the old faithful ED has reached the end of it's useful life - smoking engine (no 3 cyl needs new rings) - and bad rust breaking out in the body (car got submerged to the top of wheel arches in salt water a few years ago) - tho the chasis and suspension are still perfect. The new car is a good condition EF Auto Gli and altho I've had fun making the ED go balls out I'm just making the EF into a nice cruiser - gonna swapover the cam, extractors, 2.5 Cat (will make rest of exh. straight thru but QUIET - ie. fit 2 or 3 offset in offset out straight thru perforated tube mufflers), swaybars and shockies - ie. leaving std springs - so I'll leave feedback on how the Bilsteins are with otherwise fairly std suspension.

 

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96 EF Auto GLi - Bilstein Shocks - Adjustable Front sway bar - JMM Cam - TI Perf J3 - TCI 2500/3000 stall converter. 2015 Jeep Cherokee Trailhawk.

Last edited by Greenmachine on Tue Apr 14, 2009 8:26 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Koni & Bilstein that much better than BOGE or ULtima???
Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 8:06 pm 
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that would be awsome

Thanks dude

 

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 Post subject: Re: Koni & Bilstein that much better than BOGE or ULtima???
Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2009 9:25 am 
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Quick update - Bilsteins are in the rear with std springs and she goes great! The Bilsteins are doing their thing perfectly. Next will be putting the fronts in - but I think the front Bilsteins have adjustable spring seats - so I may fit them with the Kings and just raise the height with the seats.

From what I'm seeing with the rears tho, as far as I'm concerned fitting Bilsteins with otherwise std running gear pays off very nicely and I definitely recommend it. Personally I think you get better performance and bang for buck by simply fitting Bilsteins to otherwise untouched suspension than spending similar or even more money fitting something like monroes or pedders along with all the other junk. Even Poly bushes etc. I think become unnecessary - lets face it, rubber ones actually give better NVH but we use Poly ones to try and make the suspension perform - so with shockies that actually do their part of the job superbly, there's no need to try and compensate with poly bushes etc....

 

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 Post subject: Re: Koni & Bilstein that much better than BOGE or ULtima???
Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2009 10:01 am 
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im suprised as i would of thought that with the standard spring height it would of been crap becuz ur shock would of been short stroke becuz u had king spring lows in ur previous ride???

 

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 Post subject: Re: Koni & Bilstein that much better than BOGE or ULtima???
Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2009 1:55 pm 
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I wondered the same thing but firstly King Low height is actually not that much lower than standard - lucky if there's 2 inches difference (Superlows would certianly require short shocks) - and if anything, in the ED with the King lows the rear shockies looked too compressed - travel looked to be about 5 inches - now they look more normal.... Maybe I was sold the wrong ones? - if so they still worked ok - and now with std height springs they're still working fine.

King Lows I think you'll find don't require shorter shockies.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Koni & Bilstein that much better than BOGE or ULtima???
Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 6:23 pm 
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If you can give me the part numbers front and rear so i know which shocks 2 ask for when getting prices

 

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 Post subject: Re: Koni & Bilstein that much better than BOGE or ULtima???
Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 11:48 pm 
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Argh! - I was resetting the front spring seats today and saw the part number label - thought: "hmmm - I should write that down" - then [promptly forgot to actually do it. Thought and did the same thing when I swapped the rears the other day! No worries tho - I'll get under with torch this weekend and get the numbers for you.

 

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