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Mechanics out there - would you do this? 

 

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 Post subject: Mechanics out there - would you do this?
Posted: Mon May 23, 2005 10:32 pm 
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hey guys,
i recently had my clutch replaced, and because i wanted to go with the newer 6 bolt type, they also sourced a second hand flywheel.
the car still has a vibration indicating a warped flywheel, meaning that the replacement second hand flywheel was not machined before it was put in.
Mechanics - would you do something like this?? it REALLY annoys me...

 

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Posted: Mon May 23, 2005 10:33 pm 
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nope always get the flywheel done if putting a new clutch plate in, unless its nearly brand new.
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Posted: Mon May 23, 2005 10:37 pm 
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Who in their right mind would go to all the trouble of changing a clutch and only do half the job. Dodgy bastards

 

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Posted: Mon May 23, 2005 10:40 pm 
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i know when i was working on trucks, we had to send a reciept to the supplier showing that the flywheel had been machined to a specified grade before they would issue a warranty

 

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Posted: Mon May 23, 2005 10:43 pm 
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thats exactly what i thought. and the guy who did it is a friend of mine and i would expect him to look after me but this is the second time they've cut a corner on me...
I have gone back to them and they immediately diagnosed it as warped flywheel but i didn't discuss if they were going to charge me for it. Just annoys me because i love driving, and i love my car, but i spend all my time worrying about things going wrong and the car shuddering at 9.5 on the richter scale when slipping the clutch turns driving into a chore, not something i enjoy.

 

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1994 U13 cough Nissan Cough Bluebird

Favorite Quotes:
"Sportwagon = homo-erotic wank-fest." - downingj

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Posted: Wed May 25, 2005 3:36 am 
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Don't know but aren't flywheels and cranks dynamically balanced as a set.
So if you change clutch plates, you should always put the same flywheel (but very lightly machined) back in the same radial position on the crank end to keep this dynamic balance. If you don't do this you may get vibration.

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Posted: Wed May 25, 2005 11:40 am 
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The flywheel bolt holes on the 4l are skewed, so the flywheel can only be put on 1 way. Its not possible to put it on anyway other way.

I assume this is done to always keep the balancing right. So assuming the balance is always right, then there should never be an out of balance condition with the flywheel/crank.
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Posted: Thu May 26, 2005 2:06 am 
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arm79 wrote:
The flywheel bolt holes on the 4l are skewed, so the flywheel can only be put on 1 way. Its not possible to put it on anyway other way.

didn't know about the bolt offset as i haven't pulled an I6 flywheel out.
learn something every day :)

I have seen in other vehicles makes, when the crank and flywheel are dynamically balanced as a set, there are usually holes drilled into the flywheel flange to remove material and would explain the need for a bolt offset on the flywheel/crank. Material is usually removed from the crank counter weights for balancing reasons also.

What is the FMC recomendtion on changing flywheels ?

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Posted: Thu May 26, 2005 2:38 am 
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Well. We are talking about Ford here. Cheap and easy is the name of the game.

I dont know if you've ever had the pleasure of seeing the Ford engine production line, but these 4L are put together mostly by women. I'm thinking non-english speaking as well.

Falls entirely under the KISS principle.

But so far I've done 6 T5 conversion, and never had an issue with the flywheels being out of balance or warped... I'm guessing I must just been lucky.
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Posted: Thu May 26, 2005 3:05 pm 
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heh well the original flywheel was warped and was becoming unbearable to drive. now i've got a new clutch and a different (more) warped flywheel, i am rather p****d.
it dosent have any vibrations at speed or anything so i dont see any reason to suspect bent input shaft etc.

 

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"Sportwagon = homo-erotic wank-fest." - downingj

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Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2005 9:10 pm 
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The engine is externally balanced from the factory. Usually they achieve balance by removing metal in different positions on the flywheel so even if you balanced the flywheel , by changing it you may have an engine that is now out of balance. Or maybe it's warped like you say but unlikely a reasonable mechanic wouldn't check for warpage before fitment. Also check that the manhandling of the tail shaft hasnt dislodged any balance weights.
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Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2005 9:18 pm 
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had the flywheel machined monday, made the shudder about 90% less noticeable. Still does it a bit, but i'm thinking it's my driving style, and i'm letting the revs drop too low as i bring the clutch out...
The actual balance of the motor is fine, no vibrations from the engine at any speed. cost me 80 bucks to get it machined, so all up, it's cost me over 700 to get the clutch replaced!!!

 

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Punnisher_42
_____________
2003 BA Fairmont - Stock standard
1994 U13 cough Nissan Cough Bluebird

Favorite Quotes:
"Sportwagon = homo-erotic wank-fest." - downingj

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Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2005 11:12 pm 
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Scratch the 90% part, now i've had opportunity to drive it, it's almost as bad as it was before.
If the flywheel wasn't machined, would that damage the clutch so that the pressure plate would now cause vibrations? Would this damage result after only a few thousand k's?
Man i'm annoyed about all this. I just want to drive my car!!!!

 

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Punnisher_42
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2003 BA Fairmont - Stock standard
1994 U13 cough Nissan Cough Bluebird

Favorite Quotes:
"Sportwagon = homo-erotic wank-fest." - downingj

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Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2005 8:55 am 
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Unless the flywheel is abhorrently shuddering (reversing up an incline), I usually dont bother with machining them but this is only on my own car. If doing somebody elses, I always tell them I'd recommend it and it will extend clutch life.

Clutch shudder has nothing to do with balancing the flywheel and crank from the factory. Having the two mated and balanced together will only ensure a smooth high revving motor instead of a a*** high revving motor. Now we're talking about the 4 litre here, the terms "smooth" and "high revving" cannot be put in the same sentence as the I6. I'd more say they're balanced to reduce severe NVH to put the terms properly.

On that note, my 4 litre is as a*** as 10 grit sandpaper above 4500rpm. What is involved in having them balanced as a complete motor? Who does it and at what cost? Also how is it done - Is there an external fuel supply and ECU system to power on the motor or is it done with the crank and flywheel otu of the motor (the traditional way of balancing/blueprinting a crank)?
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