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strengthening the BTR 4 speed 

 

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 Post subject: Re: strengthening the BTR 4 speed
Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 10:27 pm 
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Dammit.. I didn't want to hear that.. no worthy mild upgrades for this box for a sub 300rwkw setup?

Any workshops with a good website that lists what they can do? and any 'Stages' or specs they can build a box to?

 

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 Post subject: Re: strengthening the BTR 4 speed
Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 12:29 am 
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locknut wrote:
Dammit.. I didn't want to hear that.. no worthy mild upgrades for this box for a sub 300rwkw setup?

Any workshops with a good website that lists what they can do? and any 'Stages' or specs they can build a box to?


no there all tight chested to try stay ahead of the rest or to not let people know how far behind they are take your pick!
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 Post subject: Re: strengthening the BTR 4 speed
Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 6:54 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Gotcha...

Gotta be some local (ACT) workshops that can trick up a box, some of the hottest streeters live here too.. Can't all be built outa' town, surely.

Seen some using C4's, generally very - super high hp cars tho.. I'm just thinking of what needs to be done on a 14Xk's old box; about to deal with -/+ 270rwkw. Gotta be internals better than OEM that a workshop recommends, IF the intention is to stick around that figure.. Even a flush? and...? Anything?

 

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 Post subject: Re: strengthening the BTR 4 speed
Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 7:10 pm 
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Basically they are the same between V8 and I6 internally they are too small internally to do much with, so buggar all parts are out there for them other than stock.

 

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 Post subject: Re: strengthening the BTR 4 speed
Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 12:49 am 
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does anyone actually know what the weak points are or what it is that breaks when these boxes let go with higher kw engines?
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 Post subject: Re: strengthening the BTR 4 speed
Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 6:02 pm 
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fairlane6970 wrote:
Basically they are the same between V8 and I6 internally they are too small internally to do much with, so buggar all parts are out there for them other than stock.


It's more of a case of "just put in a C4".

The input shaft is bigger/has more splines in the V8 box.
The earlier boxes internals are stronger than those in the late AU/BA
The best plantaries are those with oiling holes.
The best pump is out of the EF/EL/AU boxes.

 

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 Post subject: Re: strengthening the BTR 4 speed
Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 10:23 pm 
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Has anyone had the line pressure increased without the edit? A couple of auto workshops mentioned it today, there's some solenoid that controls the pressure, stock is 70psi, one said they can increase it to 140psi for quicker and firmer shifts.. anyone know more???

Also, with the flash edit with regard to auto parameters, does this solenoid get disabled so pressure is always at max/unregulated?? Anyone help on this please?

 

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 Post subject: Re: strengthening the BTR 4 speed
Posted: Sat Apr 02, 2011 8:09 pm 
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from memory when i was talking to the guy who rebuilt my gearbox he said
the BA's auto has a 16 ml pump the AU's have a 19ml, the EF/EL have a 23ml( i think)
and the EA/EB/ED's have a 26ML pump.

I got the 26 ml. he said bigger pump equals more oil which means there is more pressure available
when the box wants it and when the box dosent need the oil, the bigger pump pushes more through
the oil cooler making the whole system cooler there fore in the "safe" zone

the only problem(in my opinion benefit)with this pump is that in first gear due to some/no recirculation you can not engine brake. but only in first gear. this means you can use it as a pseudo clutch drop.(on the track obviously).

 

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 Post subject: Re: strengthening the BTR 4 speed
Posted: Sat Apr 02, 2011 8:15 pm 
Oompa Loompa
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on to the gears.

he put AU/earlier planetary gears in. he explained they have meatier teeth on them
and they are straight cut. he also explained the AU gears aren't that much better than BA
gears however they are better. he also treated the gears however I don't know exactly what he did.

he also explained the gearbox would be louder because the gears weren't as refined however i was happy to put up with the barely noticeable noise (that sounded f***ing awesome as it wound up)
to have a bit of security.

I'll get back with valves and the solenoid soon

 

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 Post subject: Re: strengthening the BTR 4 speed
Posted: Sat Apr 02, 2011 8:26 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Nice one man.

Since this, am definitely not going to touch the pressure mechanically, will do it all via tune. For eg; if it's done mechanically, it's firm all the time.. shifting from P->N->D will be annoying. Doing it via the edit I can have it quicker and firmer shifts in "D", even quicker and firmer in PERFORMANCE MODE "D", and then same again or maybe different ? in manual mode.

Will just do service in between then. However, there are a mob also doing a heat sink auto pan, claim another 20% lower temps $295... Anyone kno if it's worth it? I already got a trans cooler.

 

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 Post subject: Re: strengthening the BTR 4 speed
Posted: Sat Apr 02, 2011 8:34 pm 
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From what I can see, the Front pump is the same from EF - AU with a few changes here and there for things like GT Falcon and Tickfords. The Input shaft is the same from EA to BF, the front clutch cylinder that holds the clutch pack is the same, would appear that MOST of the internals are the same for ALL 4 speed. Planetary gears appear to be model specific. I guess the only way to get a stronger 4sp would be to get one made the Tickford Specs?
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 Post subject: Re: strengthening the BTR 4 speed
Posted: Sat Apr 02, 2011 9:13 pm 
Oompa Loompa
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hang on guys haven't finished yet

They used a :twisted: gmh :twisted: solenoid to adjust the shift firmness. rather than use the edit from the sct flash tuner. admittedly comfort has nothing to do with my ideal vehicle. this can still be adjusted. however the effect it is constant through all changes eg, selecting reverse.

this part I don't know the specifics of however they also drilled the valves. or valve bodies??

They also fitted Kevlar bands etc all the ordinary stuff. Transmission cooler etc

The fella who did the box is not just some guy i went to and asked him to fix it. he explained the processes showed the comparison of parts for example the gears, and the valves as he had a few boxes out the back. quite a few broken ba boxes and a couple of au and earlier in the process of being rebuilt. he showed me the teeth on the gears both ba and au.

like i said they weren't a great deal better but better none the less. also this was over a year and a half ago so some of the details are a little hazy. the whole deal cost just a bit over two and a half grand. it helps when you know the guy.

also as a result i have had over a year and a half over "spirited driving" and the box has soaked it all up. putin out about 410fwhp. not a lot of power but pair that up with terrible mechanical sympathy and it speaks volumes for its strength.

the only disadvantage was during box run in, in a moment of spirited driving i blew the diff to pieces
probably because it was a stock ford ute pov pac diff that couldn't handle the sudden rush of torque.

 

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 Post subject: Re: strengthening the BTR 4 speed
Posted: Sat Apr 02, 2011 9:29 pm 
Oompa Loompa
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In regards to the different parts in the gearboxes it was explained to me that when creating the "new" ford BA they went through trying to lower nvh and increase fuel economy freeing up power by changing lots of things in small ways making them weaker under performance applications however perfectly fine under "normal" operating conditions. one of the victims of this change was the tooth profile of the gears in the btr 4speed fitted to the ba falcon. with their changes they allowed for quieter and more efficient meshing reducing the power robed from meshing gears that where not cut in a helical pattern. this increased fuel economy in a minimal amount on its own however added with the other billion(slight exaggeration) parts they improved (weakened) it made a significant difference.

also the gearboxes can use some of each others parts, infact I was amazed how many parts from one model of ford will bolt straight onto another, one example is you can use a xp starter on a ba falcon(i6). they may look different from each other however they work. i had the starter from an ea in the ute. another way to confirm if two parts are the same or different from factory is to check there part number at ford. if the part numbers are different the parts are different.

 

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 Post subject: Re: strengthening the BTR 4 speed
Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 10:48 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Ride: EF XR6 Wagon, AU2 XR6 VCT

Power: 148 rwkw

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I found an article in Street Machine Nov 09 describing how DTM Transmission beefs up the BTR automatic for serious performance. Here's the main changes:

- Replace the tan/orange band with the dark grey high-energy one out of the BA.
- Reprogram the shift points, etc in the stock ECU using HP Tuners, SCT or similar software. Full manual control requires an aftermarket ECU (Motec, Wolf, etc).
- Custom larger front servo piston and cover, for more clamping force. Good for 800hp.
- Adjust clutch clearance, valve body orifice sizing, and programming to speed up shifts.
- Use the large/a*** tooth primary sun gear shaft and planetaries of the EA-AU and BA-on XR8 and Turbo. These are noisier but stronger. They also have oil holes down the center of the pinions; the BA's do not.
- Use the EF-EL pump internals. Less drag than EA-ED, more volume than BA-on, more than enough for a high performance application.
- Use the later clutch plates with radial grooves, rather than the cross-cut grooves of the earlier units.
- Use the long-tooth reaction/reverse sun gear from the V8 for extra strength.
- Replace all worn bushings (obviously)

The BTR was used by Maserati for a while, so was designed to handle 8000rpm. DTM say that there are BTRs with these mods handling engine horsepower in the high 600's (500kw) with no issues.

 

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 Post subject: Re: strengthening the BTR 4 speed
Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 11:30 pm 
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Hey hey, that's some awesome info dude!

 

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