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the truth about high stall convertors 

 

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 Post subject: the truth about high stall convertors
Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 11:31 pm 
Parts Gopher
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hi all, ive been thinking about getting a 2500-3000rpm tci stall convertor for my 95 xg ute, the motor is pretty standard just a full exhaust and a filter, its got a hd pwr tranny cooler and the stock 3.27:1 diff, i plan on getting a stage 3 crow cam in the near future.

so i was wondering what is it like to drive a car with the higher stallie? the ute serves as a daily driver that see's about 100km of stop/start traffic per week and mainly highyway/open road duties after that. is there any pros/cons that are out there in relation to bigger convertors?

if theres any advise or tips people can give me im happy to listen.
p.s. i dont want to convert to a manual :D
thanks everyone.

 

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 Post subject: Re: the truth about high stall convertors
Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 11:43 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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mines a daily with a "morestall". basically a modified standard convertor with machined internals so it doesnt fully lock up till 2800.

acts and drives just like a standard convertor untill you push it.
great i rekon.

 

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BA XT V8. Ice Mint. 18" Speedys. XR6T LSD. Full Pacemaker twin 2 1/2inch Stainless Steel system. Custom CAI. Black XR interior with white trimming. Powerbond underdrive kit 25%.
13.65@102mph. 2800 hi-Stall.
230RWKW@5250 rpm. 625NM.

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 Post subject: Re: the truth about high stall convertors
Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 1:31 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Ride: EF XR6 Wagon, AU2 XR6 VCT

Power: 148 rwkw

Location: Auckland
New Zealand

I hot the stock convertor in my EF high-stalled, and it's great! Well worth doing. I ended up with a 2900rpm stall - a bit higher than the cam really needs, but not a problem. My cam is one step hotter than an XR6 and 2700rpm or so would probably be perfect. A stock cam would probably go well with about 2500rpm stall. Looking at the Crow Stage 3 cam specs, I would guess 2900-3000rpm to be about right for it. It would make sense to do the cam and convertor around the same time.

There is no difference whatsoever at highway speeds, as the torque convertor still locks up over 80 kph. Around town accelerating at low throttle there is a noticeable amount of slip - the revs don't really drop at all on gear changes. It sounds like a drag car :twisted: There would be less of this effect if the stall rpm was a bit lower. But there was only a small reduction in fuel economy around town - not worth worrying about. You could comfortably cruise all day at 50-60 kph doing 2000rpm in Drive. Give it any throttle and it instantly snaps to about 3000rpm. Above 3000rpm there is no noticeable difference. The high stall is great in a daily driver. The EF is much more fun than my AU XR6 VCT without high stall.

The ECU still has the factory setting of 2200 rpm stall, so will go into limp mode if I try to rev it to 2900 rpm against the brakes while stationary. But flooring it from idle or maybe 1500rpm, it just jumps straight into the torque and boogies. With the factory 3.45 LSD and sticky 235/45/17 GSD3s, it hooks up and goes - no dramas (or unwanted attention from the guys in blue). An excellent investment, and a good alternative to a manual conversion.

 

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95 EF XR6 wagon, 17" FTRs, DBA, QFM, KYB/Koni, AU block, ported EF head, SS Inductions, Territory intake, MLS gasket, milled, Franklin RH24B cam, Coby headers, no cat, Tickford 2.5", 2800rpm stall, J3 chip

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 Post subject: Re: the truth about high stall convertors
Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 1:45 pm 
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ive got one in my ed aswell, very drivable as mentioned above, but i did notice a slight loose of economy and the converter will flash to 2600rpm every time i accelerate or hit a hill and want to maintain speed..
to be honest i dont like all that much for a daily driver, would be better with shorter diff gears imo.
when i mod and turbo my au i will be leaving the std stall this time..
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 Post subject: Re: the truth about high stall convertors
Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 6:38 pm 
Parts Gopher
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nice, thanks for the replys guy, basically im not after the fastest rocket on the earth but i would like my ute to be able to run a 14 every day, even if its just a 14.99.

i was thinking the auto with the stage 3 crow cam, 3000rpm stall and 3.9:1diff with a tune along with my already completed intake and exhaust mods hopefully id get there, although i priced up the diff today and they want $2k to rebuild it with a 3.9centre and tight lsd, does this seem right?, im gona try to get a few more quotes.

maybe just a manual and 3.45gears might be a better option for me, i reckon i could maybe do that for $1k

 

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 Post subject: Re: the truth about high stall convertors
Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 8:32 am 
Getting Side Ways
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TROYMAN wrote:
ive got one in my ed aswell, very drivable as mentioned above, but i did notice a slight loose of economy and the converter will flash to 2600rpm every time i accelerate or hit a hill and want to maintain speed..
to be honest i dont like all that much for a daily driver, would be better with shorter diff gears imo.
when i mod and turbo my au i will be leaving the std stall this time..


Not sure if it's the same thing you're encountering, but I've found that my std EF Gli ECU behaves very differently to my EF XR6 ECU - with the Tickford ECU oddly reluctant to lock up and yeah, it does the mushy thing on hills - but the std ECU is very positive with locking up and isn't a pain on hills. I must pay attention tho as I can't say if the std ecu is better on hills because it maintains lockup better or because it kicks down sooner so you just automatically compensate with your accelerator vs having to eventually squeeze it until it kicks down like you do with the Tickford.

I thought it was omething to do with the higher stall converter but interestingly enough my son reckons his AU3 XR6 behaves like that too (it just has the factory converter) - I've driven his car round town a fair bit but not on the open highway so hadn't picked up on it.

 

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96 EF Auto GLi - Bilstein Shocks - Adjustable Front sway bar - JMM Cam - TI Perf J3 - TCI 2500/3000 stall converter. 2015 Jeep Cherokee Trailhawk.

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 Post subject: Re: the truth about high stall convertors
Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 9:51 pm 
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Over the long weekend I took my stock ED XR6 with exhaust/headders, and bolted on a fully ported and heavily decked EF Tickford head with HUGE Camtech cam and blower spec springs, along with an EL ECU and custom pre programmed J3 chip (thanks T.I. Performance). Due to the size of the cam, I also fitted up a TCI 2500-3000rpm Hi-stall converter. I drove the car with the engine mods, but without the Hi-Stall for a day, then fitted the Hi-Stall on Monday. First thing I noticed with the Hi-stall is the gear changes at light to medium throttle are silky smooth, even though my line pressures are set high. Driving on the highway you don't notice the difference, due to lock-up. BUT. Stop at the lights, wait for the green, and punch it. OMG!!! 2800rpm instantly!!! My cam doesn't come on until 3500rpm which is a good thing as I reckon any more torque would destroy the tyres. Does feel a bit mushy in economy mode, but I never use that anyway so all good.
All up so far has cost me around 2k, including Pacey 4480's and 2.5" mandrel bend system. Add 1400 for the car and 600 for 17" rims with near new tyres, and I got me a car that will keep up to my brothers FG XR6 Turbo! Ha Ha! His cost over 20k.

 

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Ported ED XR6 head shaved too much, AU gasket, custom Crow Cam, Pacemaker 4480's, 5-speed conversion, billet aluminium flywheel, GT clutch, T.I. Performance J3 chip, custom water/methanol injection, modified BA throttle body. Paint&Panel by Barbed Wire Fence.

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 Post subject: Re: the truth about high stall convertors
Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 10:23 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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roughredXR6 wrote:
Over the long weekend I took my stock ED XR6 with exhaust/headders, and bolted on a fully ported and heavily decked EF Tickford head with HUGE Camtech cam and blower spec springs, along with an EL ECU and custom pre programmed J3 chip (thanks T.I. Performance). Due to the size of the cam, I also fitted up a TCI 2500-3000rpm Hi-stall converter. I drove the car with the engine mods, but without the Hi-Stall for a day, then fitted the Hi-Stall on Monday. First thing I noticed with the Hi-stall is the gear changes at light to medium throttle are silky smooth, even though my line pressures are set high. Driving on the highway you don't notice the difference, due to lock-up. BUT. Stop at the lights, wait for the green, and punch it. OMG!!! 2800rpm instantly!!! My cam doesn't come on until 3500rpm which is a good thing as I reckon any more torque would destroy the tyres. Does feel a bit mushy in economy mode, but I never use that anyway so all good.
All up so far has cost me around 2k, including Pacey 4480's and 2.5" mandrel bend system. Add 1400 for the car and 600 for 17" rims with near new tyres, and I got me a car that will keep up to my brothers FG XR6 Turbo! Ha Ha! His cost over 20k.

Till boost kicks in. then......
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 Post subject: Re: the truth about high stall convertors
Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 10:28 pm 
Stock as a Rock
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Ride: XD Falcon 351 Toploader

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I had never driven a car with a stall in it until i installed my new insane driveline last week, my stall is an 8" 4400 stall and coupled behind my 350hp engine it drives nicely.Yes its slippery but for all the gains it has given me i dont mind. A trans cooler is a must though...
Enjoy it wen u do it mate :lol:
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 Post subject: Re: the truth about high stall convertors
Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 10:59 pm 
Stock as a Rock
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Till boost kicks in. then......[/quote]

The FG is quicker for about first 50 metres. 6-speed auto helps him get off the line quicker, but once mine get moving its even to 150km/h.

 

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Ported ED XR6 head shaved too much, AU gasket, custom Crow Cam, Pacemaker 4480's, 5-speed conversion, billet aluminium flywheel, GT clutch, T.I. Performance J3 chip, custom water/methanol injection, modified BA throttle body. Paint&Panel by Barbed Wire Fence.

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 Post subject: Re: the truth about high stall convertors
Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 12:06 am 
Getting Side Ways
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so a n/a sohc sixpot witha cam n hi stall can go even with a fg xr6t that is capzble of a 13 flat qtr.

no.

your mate must be a hopeless driver.

 

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BA XT V8. Ice Mint. 18" Speedys. XR6T LSD. Full Pacemaker twin 2 1/2inch Stainless Steel system. Custom CAI. Black XR interior with white trimming. Powerbond underdrive kit 25%.
13.65@102mph. 2800 hi-Stall.
230RWKW@5250 rpm. 625NM.

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 Post subject: Re: the truth about high stall convertors
Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 10:33 am 
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The turbo musn't be connected, cause no mild na 6 could touch it.
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 Post subject: Re: the truth about high stall convertors
Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 11:44 am 
Getting Side Ways
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I've experienced similar thing against V8's - AND turbos - they have the initial punch but once my cam is coming in and there's enough power / torque to be right at the traction threshold then it doesn't matter if they have 100's of kw more available - they can only USE so much of it - so I'm able to hold my ground for a while - then they run away when I've reached the point where I no longer have enough power to be at that traction threshold - ie. my pedal is finally pushed hard into the floor - but they still have a heap of power left to draw on. That's usually somewhere over 100 either at the top of 3rd or in 4th depending on conditions.

 

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96 EF Auto GLi - Bilstein Shocks - Adjustable Front sway bar - JMM Cam - TI Perf J3 - TCI 2500/3000 stall converter. 2015 Jeep Cherokee Trailhawk.

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 Post subject: Re: the truth about high stall convertors
Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 8:54 pm 
Stock as a Rock
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NLGHIA5.0 wrote:
The turbo musn't be connected, cause no mild na 6 could touch it.

Even N/A i cant see it happening lol
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 Post subject: Re: the truth about high stall convertors
Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:03 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Stay alive for another ten years and you'll see and learn all sorts of wonderful things ;-)

 

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96 EF Auto GLi - Bilstein Shocks - Adjustable Front sway bar - JMM Cam - TI Perf J3 - TCI 2500/3000 stall converter. 2015 Jeep Cherokee Trailhawk.

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