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When Only Original Will Do! 

 

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 Post subject: When Only Original Will Do!
Posted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 2:56 pm 
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Location: Riverview
QLD, Australia

After a long history of persistent front wheel vibrations, extensive suspension work and more wheel balances that a circus juggler we have discovered the problem with my 1997 Ford Fairlane. You can read about the history and saga of my Fairlane by searching for Lumpy20 (or Lumpy2) on various forums where I posted over the past 3 - 4 years.

It all began in 2006 when I had a garage replaced the front wheel hubs after a cattle grid incident. Unbeknown to me at the time non-genuine 'aftermarket' hubs were used and subsequent garages, when the rotors needed replacement, did the same.

It is a pity that I cannot load up two photos here for you to look at. But, if I could you would notice that the original NL mag wheels leave centralizing push marks on the 'original' rear hubs but not on the front hubs. Measurements tell the story. The OEM mag wheel centres average 70.62mm, the rear hubs measure, 70.58/59; whereas the front 'aftermarket' hubs presently on the car measure 70.12/22mm. I realise that this might not sound like much difference, 0.4 - 0.5mm, but it does mean that the mag wheels currently centre on the front hub stud nuts and not the locating spigot on the front hubs.

This fits in with my experience over the years where the vibration would vary depending upon how the wells were fitted to the front of the car. Air guns from wheel shops and garages produced the worst vibrations where as if I loosened and re-tensioned the front wheels using a 1-3-5 pattern and finishing off with a tension wrench produced the least vibration.

A friend and I put the Fairlane up on stands and removed the wheels, which was when we noticed the differences in markings on the hub locating spigots.

Next the OEM mag wheels were sent off to Dr. Wheels (Yatla) and checked, centred and trued to specs. New 'genuine' Ford hubs were fitted to the car and the previous set of tires were refitted to the OEM mag wheels, which were balanced, and we tool the car for a test drive.

What a difference genuine makes. 6-7 years of vibration issues vanish and the wheel does not have the characteristic shake at 98-105K/Hr.

Moral of the story, it might be cheaper to use 'after-market' bits and pieces on your car but when it comes to the front wheels, at least, use genuine, especially if you have OEM mag wheels fitted.

Regards, KH
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 Post subject: Re: When Only Original Will Do!
Posted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:55 pm 
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Ring up Ford and ask for Genuine Discs of an El/NL and see what they tell you. Only way you will get genuine is if they have old stock.
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 Post subject: Re: When Only Original Will Do!
Posted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 5:23 pm 
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Hi SWC. That is happening as we write. A post at another forum has the same experience.
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 Post subject: Re: When Only Original Will Do!
Posted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 9:08 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Ride: 93 ED sedan

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Location: Rockhampton
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I have PBR rotors (bought from REPCO) on the front of my Falcon......never had issues.

 

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 Post subject: Re: When Only Original Will Do!
Posted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 9:08 pm 
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I have DBA on mine without issues

 

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 Post subject: Re: When Only Original Will Do!
Posted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 10:05 pm 
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Hi guys. Thanks for the posts. Please remember this is a 1997 NL Fairlane with extra offset on the mag boss which accentuates the issue. I posted on another Ford site and had posts from guys with similar issues with 1997 Fairlane which is not the same as EL Falcon. We tried oem mags from 1996 EL Fairmont last year but they would not bolt onto the front rotors. These mags fowled on the brake calipers. Regards, Keith
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 Post subject: Re: When Only Original Will Do!
Posted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 10:09 pm 
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Lumpy20 wrote:
Hi guys. Thanks for the posts. Please remember this is a 1997 NL Fairlane with extra offset on the mag boss which accentuates the issue. I posted on another Ford site and had posts from guys with similar issues with 1997 Fairlane which is not the same as EL Falcon. We tried oem mags from 1996 EL Fairmont last year but they would not bolt onto the front rotors. These mags fowled on the brake calipers. Regards, Keith



Incorrect.
They are 100% the same.
NL and EL are exactly the same in the front end.
Sounds like you are trying to fit AU offset wheels or something if they are hitting.
Got any pictures of these mystery wheels?

 

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 Post subject: Re: When Only Original Will Do!
Posted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 10:18 pm 
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Hi Matt. I do have pictures but don't know how to upload. No the Fairmont mags we tried were from an EL Fairmont at Gatton and not an AU. In my post above I mention that the rims centre correct on the rear hubs but not on the front. Don't know about EL - NL hubs but the measurements tell the story. The current front hubs are too small to correctly locate the OEM rims. Regards, Keith
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 Post subject: Re: When Only Original Will Do!
Posted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 10:45 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Ride: 5.0 AU's and 5.0 Maverick

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Lumpy20 wrote:
Hi Matt. I do have pictures but don't know how to upload. No the Fairmont mags we tried were from an EL Fairmont at Gatton and not an AU. In my post above I mention that the rims centre correct on the rear hubs but not on the front. Don't know about EL - NL hubs but the measurements tell the story. The current front hubs are too small to correctly locate the OEM rims. Regards, Keith


Ive read what you posted mate but honestly it isn't right.
EL and NL hubs are exactly the same and EL Fairmont and NL Fairlane wheels both fit each other exactly the same.
The hubs are the same size from late XA all the way through.
The only wheel difference is an offset change in AU.

 

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xr6turnip wrote:
More people paid for a ride in a VT commodore then an AU Falcon so the VT is superior.
Based on that fact my Mum is the best around!

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 Post subject: Re: When Only Original Will Do!
Posted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 10:45 pm 
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cjh wrote:
I have PBR rotors (bought from REPCO) on the front of my Falcon......never had issues.


actually from memory the genuine ones were made by PBR
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 Post subject: Re: When Only Original Will Do!
Posted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 11:49 pm 
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Attachment:
NL-Rear-Hub.jpg
NL-Rear-Hub.jpg [ 195.66 KiB | Viewed 21 times ]


Hi Matt.

Checked EL/NL part numbers, correct they appear to be the same: CAT 271 - 10:22; Fiche 1.J4 - EL 2C202A. (I hope non-ABS disks - EL1K02A - have not been fitted to the car? It should be obvious as there are no ABS warning lights on the dash after start-up.)

However, the photo's attached show that the OEM mags do not locate centrally on the front hubs. On the rear hub it is apparent by the push marks. Please note the wheels have been through several rotations so the differences in the photo's is consistent with the front hubs locating shoulders being smaller than the locating shoulders on the rear hubs.

Hope this clears up the issue. Regards, Kh

 

 

Attachments:
NL-Front-Hub.jpg
NL-Front-Hub.jpg [ 254.69 KiB | Viewed 24 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: When Only Original Will Do!
Posted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 7:57 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Matt_jew wrote:

The hubs are the same size from late XA all the way through.



That isn't entirely true.....XW to XB ( 7/69 - 10/75 ) are DBA 106H
And XB to XF ( 10/75 - 1988 ) and XG utes are part# DBA 107

Just to clarify.

 

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 Post subject: Re: When Only Original Will Do!
Posted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 7:58 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Posts: 6467

Joined: 18th Dec 2006

Ride: 93 ED sedan

Power: 161 rwkw

Location: Rockhampton
QLD, Australia

Forgot to put in that the stud pattern is the same, just the spigot is smaller on the earlier stuff.

 

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 Post subject: Re: When Only Original Will Do!
Posted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 8:13 pm 
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jut to add to the above issue, not all factory rims are a snug fit on the hubs either..
the tickford rims on the mrs Fairmont have about 1-2 mm movement on the hubs..
so the wheels are centralized buy the nuts only, same as per most aftermarket rims they have a larger bore than the hub..
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 Post subject: Re: When Only Original Will Do!
Posted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 8:35 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Ride: ef falcon futura

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my after market 5 spokes were a fkn tight fit on the hub, had to struggle to get them off, but my ftrs are a loose fit

 

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ef futura, pacemakers, 2.5inch catback, k&n panel filter and 3.45 lsd. extractors/cat, ticky head, custom cam grind, t5. now onto cosmetics.

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