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WHY NOT TO RUN HUB ADAPTORS.... this is proof! (pics) 

 

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Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 12:04 pm 
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tearlejc wrote:
Guys, go around and around with semantics as much as you like - maybe it was the studs, maybe not the adapter, the fact remains the dude's wheel fell off. This, I think, is why they have a rule about them. If they introduce a further risk of failure why use them?


Fact remains thaat the dudes wheel fell off when he had used thee wrong nuts (he said above he used the wrong nuts).
Do you seriously believe that that is pure coincidence?

 

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Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 12:13 pm 
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An OEM can meet the ADR standard because the whole assembly of parts is designed to meet the standards. All the parts used in that assembly are specified by the OEM. The OEM garantees the every part used in that assembly.

An aftermarket manufacturer of hub adapters would need to garrantee the vehicle hub and wheel used with the hub adapter meets the ADR standards as an assembly not just as a single component. An aftermarket manufacturer of hub adapters could do this but the range of rims would be very limited and the cost of getting ADR approval would make the exercise non viable.

This is why you can get hub adapters approved via Low Volume Engineering Certification but they specify that the hub adaptors fitted to the vechile can only be used on that vehicle with a certain hub and rim combination. The hub adapters need to fit the hub and rim properly before the vehicle will be passed. They need to comply to ADR standards as part of an assembly rather than a single component.

Last edited by bottlejack15 on Thu Sep 13, 2007 12:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 12:22 pm 
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no, not at all. Why was he using the wrong nuts? Cos they came with the adapter? Cos he brought the wrong ones when he got the adapter? Who cares? The wheel fell off. I agree that it may not have been the main body of the actual adapter - I'm not sure that the studs did not contribute and yes, I believe the nuts were a major player in what happened. But the bottom line is this: If he used Ford wheels and nuts, or wheels and nuts designed for and legal on his car, he would most likely have not suffered the wheel loss. Frankly, if all it ever meant was that the guys wheel fell off at 20 kays and nobody got hurt, I don't care. But he was on the freeway just before that - the problem was there then, just hadn't eventuated. If the adapter and associated hardware and wheel which were illegal caused a wheel to shear from his car and somebody got killed, the cops would simply apply the rules and thats that. Argue about how stupid a law is all you like, but the cops do not care about such arguments. Me, I'd rather know my car is safe and legal and not sweat every time a cop goes by or, worse, you DO get in an accident and questions get asked about the legality of your car.

 

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Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 12:29 pm 
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tearlejc wrote:
Guys, go around and around with semantics as much as you like - maybe it was the studs, maybe not the adapter, the fact remains the dude's wheel fell off. This, I think, is why they have a rule about them. If they introduce a further risk of failure why use them?

Anyway I don't intend saying anything more on the topic. I've made my views clear, and if others want to use them, go ahead. Its not my car.

If he DIDN'T have a hub adaptor, and used the wrong wheelnuts, his wheel probably still would have come off.

Their are alot of things people do on here that are ILLEGAL, but are still SAFE.
I beleive hub adaptors, when used correctly, are one of them.

 

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Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 1:07 pm 
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Undoubtedly true if the nuts are 100% the problem - but why was he using shonky nuts? Cos they either came with, or he obtained them to go with, the adapters (whether he got hold of the wrong ones is beside the point). Like I keep saying, if he used the right parts designed for his car, probably have a far less likely chance of wheels falling off.

And if people ARE doing illegal stuff to their cars, then they DO run the risk of being defected or whatever. their problem if they want to take a risk. Me, I'd rather be legal and not sweat it. My cars ADR 26A and pre-dates most of the ADR's that post `74 cars might be breaking so its very easy for older cars to be modified and still be legal - if you've got a newer car then yes, you might break a whole lot of rules if you want the same mods. Your choice - but don't complain if there is a law there, no matter how stupid, and you get done breaking it - or, in the sad case which started this whole thread, if you end up breaking your car or potentially worse...

 

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Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 1:18 pm 
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tearlejc wrote:
Undoubtedly true if the nuts are 100% the problem - but why was he using shonky nuts? Cos they either came with, or he obtained them to go with, the adapters (whether he got hold of the wrong ones is beside the point). Like I keep saying, if he used the right parts designed for his car, probably have a far less likely chance of wheels falling off.

That goes FOR any part you fit to a car, hub adaptor, factory wheel, exhaust system, shocks, springs, etc. etc.
Use the wrong parts, or install the right parts wrong, and s**t can happen.

I think we can all agree, hub adaptors can be unsafe if they aren't fitted correctly, and that goes for alot of things on your car.
But you cannot categorically state that hub adaptors are UNSAFE.
Illegal? Allegedly, but no one is complaining about legalities here, just the safety aspect, and they are two very seperate things.

 

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Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 1:43 pm 
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Yep, I'll agree with you. Adapters can be unsafe if fitted incorrectly. I don't like them in general but if I'm not putting them on my car who cares?

Dunno if you can separate legality from safety - supposedly the laws are written in many cases with safety issues in mind, and whoever sat down and thought `f*ck it - i've heard too many bad things about adapters - I'll make them all illegal' - whether that person was right or wrong its what we're stuck with, same as the days of using your oxy to cut or soften your springs to lower your car are gone - you can safely cut coils if you know what you're doing, but the cops and the courts really don't care if you know what you're doing - they think of all the idiots who didn't know what they were doing who they've had to peel off roads or trees or whatever. Same with adapters - if you REALLY know what you're doing (or if the manufacturer does) and goes the right way about it and gets them approved (i.e, legal) then you've got no worries - if the manufacturer can't or won't do this, then I wouldn't be trusting their product anyway.

 

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Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 3:32 pm 
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bottlejack15 wrote:
An OEM can meet the ADR standard because the whole assembly of parts is designed to meet the standards. All the parts used in that assembly are specified by the OEM. The OEM garantees the every part used in that assembly.

An aftermarket manufacturer of hub adapters would need to garrantee the vehicle hub and wheel used with the hub adapter meets the ADR standards as an assembly not just as a single component. An aftermarket manufacturer of hub adapters could do this but the range of rims would be very limited and the cost of getting ADR approval would make the exercise non viable.

This is why you can get hub adapters approved via Low Volume Engineering Certification but they specify that the hub adaptors fitted to the vechile can only be used on that vehicle with a certain hub and rim combination. The hub adapters need to fit the hub and rim properly before the vehicle will be passed. They need to comply to ADR standards as part of an assembly rather than a single component.


So why do the hubs not have to be certified with the wide range of rims avaliable for them in there original offset?

 

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Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 3:38 pm 
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They only don't have to be certified if you intend using them illegally....mate, if it isn't certified as a safe combination, maybe there's a reason for that...either not legal or not safe or both.

 

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Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 3:48 pm 
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There is a big argument going on here but i just feel that I had them and they caused nothing but problems. Sure you may be right that they are safe, but whats even safer and has better piece of mind is just having the correct wheels on. I sure feel a lot better and the car feels a lot better with proper wheels over hub adapters. If it ain't broke don't fix it.

 

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Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 3:53 pm 
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Yep, I agree and have been trying to make the same point all along. If you want to break the law, be unsafe, whatever, no amount of posts on a forum will change your mind. Do what you like, but don't be surprised when the consequences go a nasty shade of brown.

 

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Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 4:37 pm 
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I am still yet to see the horrific consequences of running hub adaptors.
I see a thread showing the consequences of using the wrong wheelnuts, I see nothing of hub adaptors.

 

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Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 4:40 pm 
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yep. Wheelnuts or adapters who cares? Wheels falling off the car is not a good thing no matter what the cause...

 

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Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 4:40 pm 
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Exactly.....here here.

Lets have the thread renamed.....look what happens when you fit the wrong wheel nuts.
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Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 4:42 pm 
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I know! lets call it wheels falling off your car may be dangerous, no matter what caused it??

 

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