Fordmods Logo

Re: How to make a 351 Range Ford 

 

Page 1 of 20 [ 297 posts ] Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 20  Next

 
 Post subject: Re: How to make a 351 Range Ford
Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 1:59 am 
EFI Guru
Offline

Age: 52

Posts: 4289

Joined: 5th Nov 2004

Gallery: 28 images

Ride: 351 Vogue,XH 5.0,'17 5.0 Stang

Location: Perth
WA, Australia

Here's one of my other projects.
Image
Our family has had a few of these over the years including a '78 2door, '86 HiLine and '91 Vogue.
I've always liked them apart from their poxy engine. I picked up this '93 Vogue about a year ago knowing that I would eventually fit a 351w to it. It's in better condition than most but the viscous coupling started playing up so I converted to the gear driven and very tough Landrover LT230 transfer box which has a lockable diff. I thought I'd leave the engine until it f**k up before I started the conversion.
As it turns out I didn't have to wait long, it started running rough after a few bush bashing trips. After checking the basics I found it was a typical problem with these poxy engines...a slipped liner, with coolant and oil leaking out the back of the left hand head gasket. So, out the pile of s**t came!
Image
After some measurements it seems the 351 is the same width as the 3.9 and is in fact shorter in length than the 3.9. Height is a different matter but I have some options there.
Image
Image
No mods needed to the sump…
Image
Here’s the gap back the ZF which, on the 3.9 is taken up by the extra length of the bellhousing boss on the back of the engine. This actually plays into my hands because the Ford gearbox can now move forward to take up this difference which only improves trans positioning.
Image

Wanting to stay with a 4spd auto and, after some investigation there appears to be no adapters made for this conversion. As it turns out, the ZFHP22 or the later, electronic HP24 4spd auto can’t be beefed up enough to handle the torque of the 351 anyway. After trying a BTR auto and finding it unsuitable, I began my search for a Ford 4R70W which are a good match for the 351 and will bolt straight up. After getting typical dumb C*** answers and ridiculous prices($1600+ for a 2nd handy!?) from eastern states importers I ended up finding a ’96 Bronco 4R70W with transfer box for $800 from a place in Perth. The transfer I should be able to sell off for around $500.
Image
Here it is dummied up against the ZF extension/LT230…
Image
Already it has considerable advantages; the trans it not so wide as to hinder front driveshaft clearance even with a relatively short adapter plate of approx 45mm. This means minimal changes to the transfer case mounting positions which means less shortening of the rear driveshaft and therefore more desirable driveshaft angles which is quite unlike all the s**t GM trans options that those importers tried to ram down my throat!?
Image
The gearbox appears quite clean inside and they come with a tough 31 spline output shaft..
Image
After getting outlandish prices on cutting a new adapter shaft, we’re using the original range rover stub shaft machined, pressed and welded into a machined down 31spline yoke from a BA GT.
Here’s the CAD drawing of the alloy adapter plate..
Image

Last edited by XR9UTE on Fri Sep 07, 2012 11:01 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 
 Post subject: Re: How to make 351 Ford Rover
Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 3:48 pm 
Getting Side Ways
Offline
User avatar

Age: 25

Posts: 4599

Joined: 30th Aug 2010

Ride: BF XR6,

Location: NEWCASTLE
NSW, Australia

can i have the old engine? so i can roll it off the biggest cliff i can find! my mate has a land rover and im sick to death of him saying how "its a v8 therefore its more powerfull than anything in the world" yet he breaks s**t every time it starts or moves, and fuel economy is rediculous, theres no such thing as economy with it! and dont get me started on power, (or lack of power) lol
good to see someones putting a real v8 in it :D ill be watching this

 

_________________

BF XR6
xr8 snorkel,typhoon lower snorkel,territory intake pipe,20% underdrive kit,pacemaker extractors,high flow cat,xforce exhaust,t56 conversion hd turbo clutch/ flywheel,m86 3.45 lsd,custom tune187.1rwkw as an auto

Top
 Profile  
 
 
 Post subject: Re: How to make 351 Ford Rover
Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 1:00 am 
EFI Guru
Offline

Age: 52

Posts: 4289

Joined: 5th Nov 2004

Gallery: 28 images

Ride: 351 Vogue,XH 5.0,'17 5.0 Stang

Location: Perth
WA, Australia

You can have it for $500 and throw it off a cliff if you like bry.
btw I picked up the good runner 351 for $600 and it already had the Falcon front dress on it...what a bargain! It had genie extractors on it too but I think I'll make my headers from scratch rather than modify those. I got some more 40Y heads and 1.7 rollers but I may just run it stock to start with. Torque is the key here and it's got it in spades with over 100lb/ft more and that's just at the peak! I'd prefer to retain the stock intake too but I'm trying to keep it under the bonnet which just won't happen. Power wise it's already about 40hp more than the poxy 180hp that it once had.
Here's the engine dummied up with a HO intake and 65mm Edelbrock T-body.

Image

90 degree oil filter adapter from Ford Racing...

Image

HO upper adapter from BC broncos in the states. For $99 it's not worth thinking about making my own and it comes with bolts and gaskets.

Image
Image

Ends up 260mm at the highest point which may be just ok, we'll see. Luckily it's lower at the side which is where the clearance is least.

Image

I'm hoping to use EF-L engine mounts.

Image
Top
 Profile  
 
 
 Post subject: Re: How to make 351 Ford Rover
Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 8:00 am 
Getting Side Ways
Offline
User avatar

Age: 27

Posts: 1998

Joined: 31st Dec 2007

Gallery: 9 images

Ride: xc wag's, tnklane wag's

Location: Munruben
QLD, Australia

bry40l wrote:
can i have the old engine? so i can roll it off the biggest cliff i can find! my mate has a land rover and im sick to death of him saying how "its a v8 therefore its more powerfull than anything in the world" yet he breaks s**t every time it starts or moves, and fuel economy is rediculous, theres no such thing as economy with it! and dont get me started on power, (or lack of power) lol
good to see someones putting a real v8 in it :D ill be watching this

hehe, I always find it funny about the fact a v8 the same size as an ea motor.

awesome looking project mate, good to see someone do some serious work.

 

_________________

Signature removed by moderator.signature must not exceed 120x500 pixles

Top
 Profile  
 
 
 Post subject: Re: How to make a 351 Ford Rover
Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 8:29 am 
Getting Side Ways
Offline
User avatar

Age: 28

Posts: 2515

Joined: 27th Mar 2006

Gallery: 1 images

Ride: FG MkII Xr6t Ute

Location: Brisbane
QLD, Australia

Is the AODE 100% electronically controlled? (cf BTR)

I agree with Ash, good to see another decent project.

 

_________________

EVL098 wrote:
Cramping in the hand from having it on your Wang for an excessive period of time is a definate con.
Seriously do people google "f**k up modifications for Fords owned by Jews" and get linked straight to this site nowadays?

AU,factory fitted tickford kit/IRS, t5,Sports ryder/KYB: gone.

Top
 Profile  
 
 
 Post subject: Re: How to make a 351 Ford Rover
Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 11:26 am 
EFI Guru
Offline

Age: 52

Posts: 4289

Joined: 5th Nov 2004

Gallery: 28 images

Ride: 351 Vogue,XH 5.0,'17 5.0 Stang

Location: Perth
WA, Australia

Glad you like it lads,
Yes skidman, the AODE/4R70 is electronically controlled and just a whole lot better than an AOD in general. Being a '96 version it's better than the older ones but, the later the better with these. In fact my contact in the U.S. says the '05 4.2 V6 version is the best and because it's a V6 it has a smallblock pattern although it doesn't have a speed sensor like mine. So he's offered to build me a '99 5.0 Explorer one for $1800 which will easily handle over 500hp/500lb.
For control I have several options;
a '94-'95 5.0 Mustang EECIV to control both engine and trans.(requires a solenoid change within trans)
a '96 5.0 F-series EECV to do both again
any of the well supported modular EEC's to control both again but with more engine tuning required.
any other 5.0/5.8 EEC in MAF or SD form and a stand alone controller.
I've decided to go with a EB-D 5.0 EECIV for engine and a Baumann Optishift for trans.
The Optishift is a great bit of gear and can even do paddle shift etc. I'll probably use a BA shifter with it. It's a nice small unit and has a bright orange display so i can probably mount it in the console(another s**t thing in these cars so I'll be making a new one) and do away with an ordinary shift posi display.

Image
Top
 Profile  
 
 
 Post subject: Re: How to make a 351 Ford Rover
Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 12:12 pm 
Getting Side Ways
Offline

Posts: 790

Joined: 18th Mar 2005

Gallery: 4 images

Location: Adelaide
SA, Australia

Agreed ! Fantastic to see a proper project rather than painted doorhandles and LED interior lights :roll: will be watching this thread!!

 

_________________

351 4V XB Coupe running LPG

Top
 Profile  
 
 
 Post subject: Re: How to make a 351 Ford Rover
Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 12:47 pm 
Getting Side Ways
Offline
User avatar

Age: 28

Posts: 2515

Joined: 27th Mar 2006

Gallery: 1 images

Ride: FG MkII Xr6t Ute

Location: Brisbane
QLD, Australia

Great, was about to ask what shifter you planned on using!

 

_________________

EVL098 wrote:
Cramping in the hand from having it on your Wang for an excessive period of time is a definate con.
Seriously do people google "f**k up modifications for Fords owned by Jews" and get linked straight to this site nowadays?

AU,factory fitted tickford kit/IRS, t5,Sports ryder/KYB: gone.

Top
 Profile  
 
 
 Post subject: Re: How to make a 351 Ford Rover
Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 2:46 pm 
EFI Guru
Offline

Age: 52

Posts: 4289

Joined: 5th Nov 2004

Gallery: 28 images

Ride: 351 Vogue,XH 5.0,'17 5.0 Stang

Location: Perth
WA, Australia

Yep, I thought of using the stock shifter but the 4R70 doesn't use a 4 posi shifter so one of the positions would be redundant. So rather than using a 3spd shifter with a switch for OD I thought I'd go the BA type. I'll see if I can make it work anyway.
Top
 Profile  
 
 
 Post subject: Re: How to make a 351 Ford Rover
Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 10:33 pm 
Getting Side Ways
Offline
User avatar

Age: 45

Posts: 3531

Joined: 5th Nov 2004

Gallery: 25 images

Ride: 93 Maverick LWB/S2 LWB Delica

Power: 75 rwkw

Location: uoʇǝlƃuıs lʍoq ʇsnp
NSW, Australia

tearlejc wrote:
Agreed ! Fantastic to see a proper project rather than painted doorhandles and LED interior lights :roll: will be watching this thread!!

ROFL yep have to agree, but we all have to remember many of the members probably get hassled by the law due to age group, so those sort of mods are cheap and cop safe (well sort of).

XR9UTE wrote:
Glad you like it lads,
Yes skidman, the AODE/4R70 is electronically controlled and just a whole lot better than an AOD in general. Being a '96 version it's better than the older ones but, the later the better with these. In fact my contact in the U.S. says the '05 4.2 V6 version is the best and because it's a V6 it has a smallblock pattern although it doesn't have a speed sensor like mine. So he's offered to build me a '99 5.0 Explorer one for $1800 which will easily handle over 500hp/500lb.

I think it would be few and far between your build threads that don't impress, well for me anyway.

Hmm I can't find any info on any late Essex's with 4WD, do you know of any, it may come in handy as many US Ford 4WD's are left front drop, good for vehicles like Mitsubishi etc and would save looking at purchasing a V6 auto then to have to find a transfer case.
Also nice for Pajero type transfer case replacement as many Fords with 4WD have a better low range ratio than their 1.9 or 1.92 (wow .02 lower :shock:).
A lot of Bitsamissin real 4WD autos only have PND21 and a overdrive switch, which would suit the 4R70 etc, the 4R70 has similar low and top ratios to many Bitsamissin autos.

XR9UTE wrote:
I've decided to go with a EB-D 5.0 EECIV for engine and a Baumann Optishift for trans.
Image

Any reason for the EB-D 5.0L EECIV over others?
I like the idea of the Baumann, I read about them years ago, I am guessing you have used them before.

 

_________________

93 Ford Maverick LWB automatic petrol guzzler (gets stuck where Deli doesn't, big pumpkins :evil:)
97 S2 Mitsubishi Delica LWB (off the road getting v8 transplant) http://tmacmechanical.com.au/

Top
 Profile  
 
 
 Post subject: Re: How to make a 351 Ford Rover
Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 11:40 pm 
EFI Guru
Offline

Age: 52

Posts: 4289

Joined: 5th Nov 2004

Gallery: 28 images

Ride: 351 Vogue,XH 5.0,'17 5.0 Stang

Location: Perth
WA, Australia

Yeah they had 4.2 4WD F150's from about '97 macca. The 4.2 replaced the 4.9 straight six.
Reason for the EB-D EEC is they and the harnesses, are plentiful and if I want to, I can use a Mustang EECIV on the same harness.
Never used the Optishift but I know some guys who use them and reckon they're great. Much better than the old Baumann TCS apparently. The use of ordinary PC D-connectors turned me off the old TCS even before I looked at the rest of it.

Here's a comparison of the old Lucas harness and the Ford harness.
Incredibly they are very similar in length, I just had to strip the ABS stuff out of this ED harness.

Image

the ABS stripped out which gives me a bunch spare wires with the same EEC pins. So I can use some for thermofan control etc:)

Image
Top
 Profile  
 
 
 Post subject: Re: How to make a 351 Ford Rover
Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 1:00 pm 
EFI Guru
Offline

Age: 52

Posts: 4289

Joined: 5th Nov 2004

Gallery: 28 images

Ride: 351 Vogue,XH 5.0,'17 5.0 Stang

Location: Perth
WA, Australia

Picked up a 351 GT40 lower from Jeff(XH5LWPN) today. Thanks Jeff.
So it'll be considered for this build but I'll try the stock truck lower/HO upper combo to start with to see if clears the bonnet. The combo below is approx 15mm higher but still a full 30mm shorter than the stock 5.8 intake.

Image

Image
Top
 Profile  
 
 
 Post subject: Re: How to make a 351 Ford Rover
Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 7:48 pm 
Getting Side Ways
Offline
User avatar

Age: 45

Posts: 3531

Joined: 5th Nov 2004

Gallery: 25 images

Ride: 93 Maverick LWB/S2 LWB Delica

Power: 75 rwkw

Location: uoʇǝlƃuıs lʍoq ʇsnp
NSW, Australia

Is there any super low 5.0L or 5.8L long runner intakes, intakes that may be close to the tappet covers etc?

If I had a tig I would have a go at making one, it is something I have always wanted to do, but it will never happen :lol:

 

_________________

93 Ford Maverick LWB automatic petrol guzzler (gets stuck where Deli doesn't, big pumpkins :evil:)
97 S2 Mitsubishi Delica LWB (off the road getting v8 transplant) http://tmacmechanical.com.au/

Top
 Profile  
 
 
 Post subject: Re: How to make a 351 Ford Rover
Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 8:10 pm 
EFI Guru
Offline

Age: 52

Posts: 4289

Joined: 5th Nov 2004

Gallery: 28 images

Ride: 351 Vogue,XH 5.0,'17 5.0 Stang

Location: Perth
WA, Australia

The lowest is the stock lower with adapter to HO upper I'm afraid Macca,
I did this in the past for my mates XA Superbird.

Cut the base off the upper and milled off 20mm with a little slight angle to tip the plenum over close the rocker cover...

Image

Cut T-body flange off and angled and flipped it 180. I also extend this section later which you can't see by about 80-100mm...

Image

Here you can compare the difference...

Image
Top
 Profile  
 
 
 Post subject: Re: How to make a 351 Ford Rover
Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 8:18 pm 
EFI Guru
Offline

Age: 52

Posts: 4289

Joined: 5th Nov 2004

Gallery: 28 images

Ride: 351 Vogue,XH 5.0,'17 5.0 Stang

Location: Perth
WA, Australia

Here it is in place and you can see the extra length in the T-body flange...

Image
Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:
Sort by  
 Page 1 of 20  [ 297 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 20  Next

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

 

 

It is currently Fri Dec 15, 2017 5:58 am All times are UTC + 11 hours

 

 

(c)2014 Total Web Solutions Australia - Australian Web Hosting and Domain Names