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TimmyA's 93 ED Falcon 

 

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 Post subject: Re: TimmyA's 93 ED Falcon
Posted: Sat Sep 24, 2016 5:39 pm 
Oompa Loompa
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WA, Australia

Hi Im looking at installing A FG steering wheel in to my XH can you give me any more details on doing it.. I already have the AU sterio controls in my XH...
Thanks Graham
TimmyA wrote:
No worries mate...

Cruise buttons modify basically exactly the same way...

The cruise buttons I reckon would work on a BA as only on resistor is different and its basically within the 5% tolerance I guess an SMD resistor would have...

The radio buttons are massively different...

Recap on the BA ones then under it the FG ones

Image

Image

And this is the mod to the cruise side to work with EL cruise

Image

One should note the two red wise are not connected... The red wire for the radio buttons is the sense into the PAC unit I have... The red wire on the cruise is the horn wire colour used in the buttons too... Pink will be send (basically just a ground) out of the cruise module Purple will be receive (sense)...

The spare bung in the cruise switches I am considering for one of two things...

Option one is to cycle the digital read out in the NL cluster I have to go in... Thats if it will stay in diagnostic mode once you enter into it... The you can cycle while driving to see various info without reaching through the wheel... Other option is as a cruise "off" button, but I may make up the flip flop so the one button works as on and off (something I still haven't found the motivation for...)

So thats it for the moment... Done enough study on it for tonight... I know where I stand now...

Cheers,
Tim

 

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 Post subject: Re: TimmyA's 93 ED Falcon
Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2016 11:16 pm 
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Ride: ED Falcon

Power: 133 rwkw

Location: Leeton
NSW, Australia

Well it's been a while... Updates...

Firstly... Some photography... Final Falcon Friday has been and gone... I got the cars out and washed them, and got some photos to have my own celebration for the amazing Aussie built Ford Falcon...

Image

Been buying loads of goodies...

Got most parts ready to go now...

Haltech Elite 2500 + Wideband
6x ICE LS1 Ignition coils
Aeroflow 340lph pump
Turbosmart FPR800 reg
Proflow 80mm Throttle Body
Senders & Senders galore...


Idler Pulley is made... Belt has been sourced from the states... All looks good and true as much as I can tell... Bypass valve plumbing is all but sorted... the critical part missed all the AU AC lines which is a nice fluke... Fuel rail has had the fitting welded on the front...

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This leads me onto point 2...

Bought a scorcher front bar... Bar was going to cost me $250, or I could have the whole car for $500... Car was only 3hrs away and I was due for a drive so off we went... Was listed like this:

Image

By the time old mate was selling it he had stripped the motor for a rebuild (which I didn't want so left it behind)... But it was turboed (no compliance)... Has 180 on it... But it looks like it rolled off the production line yesty... The paint is brand new... Nothing is faded, sun damaged, nothing... Has a few small dents in the back door...

Because I can do everything but panel beat and paint... I've made the decision to strip the red body... Transfer it into the silver body... Build the red one back up from the "left overs" from the spare parts XR I bought and sell it going... Bit of a shame... Been everywhere in the red car, but the silver one is way to good to scrap, and will save me probably 10k getting the red one fixed up... So got lots of work ahead there...


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I am going to redesign the intake elbow for the blower... It's going to mount above the blower and point forwards... Just simplifies the whole design and means I can mount the coil above the fuel rail and loop the leads over the rocker cover to the plugs... Just struggling to measure a height to the bonnet to make sure nothing fouls... If anyone has some spare ED engine mounts and brackets please let me know... It'd be helpful to do a mock up...


So because of the difficulties there currently, I've moved onto brake upgrades which the engineer wanted to see... Following the "budget big brakes" thread on here to do the same.... Scored some near new DBA 5000 series AU 329mm 2 piece rotors... And this arvo cut the front rotors from an EL down, pressed the studs out, and cut the disc off so I can drop the hubs off for maching down to fit the new rotors... Then onto the upright mods then... Plan at this stage is to run a BF caliper... Should fit a 17" wheel... The 325's do on the wife's BF turbo...

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Always progress... I'll get the brakes finished off... Then go back to the intake elbow fab, and then I should be able to start wiring bits up...

Cheers,
Tim

 

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Performance: Complete AUII VCT Wiring & Power Train, Pacey Headers, 2.5" Exhaust, Exedy Clutch, DBA Rotors
Visuals: FG XR Wheel, XR Front, 17's, BA 5 Spd Shifter, BA Ghia Window Switches, NL Cluster
Tunes: 8" Pioneer Sub, JBL Speakers, Clarion Double DIN Headunit

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 Post subject: Re: TimmyA's 93 ED Falcon
Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2016 6:55 am 
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Ride: ED Falcon

Power: 133 rwkw

Location: Leeton
NSW, Australia

Do any of you kind folks know if Ed and El axles are the same? Specifically the tone wheel?

I am need to mount wheel speed sensors for launch control in the haltech, but the ed sensors I have lying around are all shot... The insulation cracks and falls off... The El front ones I have are much better units than the ed ones... So wondering if I buy El rears, whether they'll fit the ed backing plate and read the axle...

Cheers,
Tim

 

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93 Red ED 5spd Manual Build Thread

Performance: Complete AUII VCT Wiring & Power Train, Pacey Headers, 2.5" Exhaust, Exedy Clutch, DBA Rotors
Visuals: FG XR Wheel, XR Front, 17's, BA 5 Spd Shifter, BA Ghia Window Switches, NL Cluster
Tunes: 8" Pioneer Sub, JBL Speakers, Clarion Double DIN Headunit

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 Post subject: Re: TimmyA's 93 ED Falcon
Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2016 4:35 pm 
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I think the rear pulse rings are the same (42 teeth?) - IIRC I swapped axles - ED's into an EL rear axle, and the EL ABS didn't have issues. I think the EL's have longer wheel studs too, so I did swap them over from memory.
Fronts are a different story though.

 

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 Post subject: Re: TimmyA's 93 ED Falcon
Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2016 4:53 pm 
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Ride: ED Falcon

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It was mostly the rear sensors... Because all the ED rear sensors I have, have the plastic outer sheath on the wiring disintegrating and falling off, I thought El sensors may be different/better as long as they're compatible...

The ED front sensors I have are the same crappy design with the sheath falling off... The EL sensors I have don't have the issue... Seem to be better... So I making hubs from the EL discs with the EL tone wheels (I notice the EL sensors are shorter and the tone wheels have different offset to accommodate)...

Might just have to find someone wrecking a car and buy some and try them out... See what is...

Cheers,
Tim

 

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93 Red ED 5spd Manual Build Thread

Performance: Complete AUII VCT Wiring & Power Train, Pacey Headers, 2.5" Exhaust, Exedy Clutch, DBA Rotors
Visuals: FG XR Wheel, XR Front, 17's, BA 5 Spd Shifter, BA Ghia Window Switches, NL Cluster
Tunes: 8" Pioneer Sub, JBL Speakers, Clarion Double DIN Headunit

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 Post subject: Re: TimmyA's 93 ED Falcon
Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2016 8:34 pm 
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My rear sensors have the wires showing - I was thinking of just wrapping some heatshrink tape to seal them - they've been that way for a long time, but I've had no broken wire issues. Probably wise to do same - I don't know if the ED/EL rears have different pickup coil resistances.
The EF/EL front tone wheels have 49 holes - the ED ones have considerably more, so running EF/EL tone wheels with the ED bendix ABS will give you a 'Check ABS' light. And yes, front sensors are different lengths, may have different pickup coil resistances too.

 

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96 XH Longreach 'S': LPG, Alarm, 3.23:1 LSD, Cruise, Trip Comp, ABS, Power Windows, Mid Series Dome Lt, Climate Ctrl
97 EL Futura S/W: LPG, Alarm, LED int Lts, Trip Comp, F/Lane Dome Lt, Climate Ctrl, T5 Conversion

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 Post subject: Re: TimmyA's 93 ED Falcon
Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2016 11:25 pm 
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Ahhh...

Yeah not feeding them into the bendix unit... Currently has no abs and will remain that... They'll feed the haltech elite 2500 for speedo and launch / traction control... I can configure the calibration in the program no dramas... Just wanting some decent sensors... I might completely peel some here and slide the plug body off and slide a length of heat shrink on,esp if you reckon your ef/El ones are doing the same business...

Cheers,
Tim

 

_________________

93 Red ED 5spd Manual Build Thread

Performance: Complete AUII VCT Wiring & Power Train, Pacey Headers, 2.5" Exhaust, Exedy Clutch, DBA Rotors
Visuals: FG XR Wheel, XR Front, 17's, BA 5 Spd Shifter, BA Ghia Window Switches, NL Cluster
Tunes: 8" Pioneer Sub, JBL Speakers, Clarion Double DIN Headunit

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 Post subject: Re: TimmyA's 93 ED Falcon
Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2016 12:36 am 
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Yeah, they're not much better - I haven't looked at the plug to see if the pins and wires drop out to put some heatshrink on.
Don't forget you'll need to upgrade your master cyl and booster to handle the extra capacity of the twin pot fronts, also the higher split point needed as well.

 

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96 XH Longreach 'S': LPG, Alarm, 3.23:1 LSD, Cruise, Trip Comp, ABS, Power Windows, Mid Series Dome Lt, Climate Ctrl
97 EL Futura S/W: LPG, Alarm, LED int Lts, Trip Comp, F/Lane Dome Lt, Climate Ctrl, T5 Conversion

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 Post subject: Re: TimmyA's 93 ED Falcon
Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2016 9:39 am 
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Ride: ED Falcon

Power: 133 rwkw

Location: Leeton
NSW, Australia

What master/booster do you run?

Nobody else seems to change them... UPC don't supply one or mention it... Old budget brakes mate reckons that the std one was good... Never seen under the bonnet on an rbs or cebco kit...

There isn't many options for ed... I did look it up and found that au lines come out reversed to ed meaning one of my lines will be too long and one too short... And then I don't know if it'll fit my dual diaphragm booster...

What do you mean by split point?

Cheers,
Tim

 

_________________

93 Red ED 5spd Manual Build Thread

Performance: Complete AUII VCT Wiring & Power Train, Pacey Headers, 2.5" Exhaust, Exedy Clutch, DBA Rotors
Visuals: FG XR Wheel, XR Front, 17's, BA 5 Spd Shifter, BA Ghia Window Switches, NL Cluster
Tunes: 8" Pioneer Sub, JBL Speakers, Clarion Double DIN Headunit

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 Post subject: Re: TimmyA's 93 ED Falcon
Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2016 12:36 pm 
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Ride: 96 XH/97 EL

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What master/booster do you run?
I'll be running AUII wagon mast cyl and booster on my EFXR6 wagon, AUII ute mast cyl and booster for my XH ute. Yours you can run AUII sedan. Since rear piston capacity is the same for E series and AUII, I figure it's the closest setup to OEM spec.

Nobody else seems to change them... UPC don't supply one or mention it... Old budget brakes mate reckons that the std one was good... Never seen under the bonnet on an rbs or cebco kit...
Would be good to see the ELGT/FBT service supplement - I've seen under a couple of bonnets, and they run the plastic EF/EL booster and mast cyl.

There isn't many options for ed... I did look it up and found that au lines come out reversed to ed meaning one of my lines will be too long and one too short... And then I don't know if it'll fit my dual diaphragm booster...
gearbox-suspension-brake-driveline-f4/machining-stub-axles-budget-big-brake-build-brakes-on-t112322-465.html

What do you mean by split point? Split point is the pressure the proportioning valve starts restricting fluid pressure to the rear brakes, to reduce locking up. It's in Mpa and stamped on the front of the mast cyl. It's higher in wagons than sedans, and the twin pot fronts are higher too.

post1331501.html
gearbox-suspension-brake-driveline-f4/ba-springs-and-shocks-and-fg-brakes-in-au1-s-falcon-t131099.html

Last post in this one - rd had spongy brakes running the AUI setup with twin pot fronts. After fitting AUII mastcyl and booster, this was corrected, braking improved markedly as well. The AUII booster fits some earlier cars, but the firewall lip around the top may be an issue.
gearbox-suspension-brake-driveline-f4/problem-master-cyl-or-booster-t116674.html

 

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96 XH Longreach 'S': LPG, Alarm, 3.23:1 LSD, Cruise, Trip Comp, ABS, Power Windows, Mid Series Dome Lt, Climate Ctrl
97 EL Futura S/W: LPG, Alarm, LED int Lts, Trip Comp, F/Lane Dome Lt, Climate Ctrl, T5 Conversion

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 Post subject: Re: TimmyA's 93 ED Falcon
Posted: Sun Nov 27, 2016 10:46 pm 
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Ray,

Hmmm... So basically from that I've concluded that if I am going to run an AU master, I need to run the booster too to make it fit...

Sounds like, despite needing 4 mounting holes, the AU booster wont bolt straight up to ED?

They're metal too are they? And dual diaphragm? If they're plastic like the EF/EL I'll take my chances with ED gear... Plastic booster was a stupid idea...

Are the lines indeed backwards on the masters? ED front end of master does front brakes? Front end of AUII master looks to do rear brakes?

May try it on with the ED booster/master and see what happens... The post about getting it sleeved seemed interesting... Does that fix the split point you mentioned or it's governed by springs?

Cheers,
Tim

 

_________________

93 Red ED 5spd Manual Build Thread

Performance: Complete AUII VCT Wiring & Power Train, Pacey Headers, 2.5" Exhaust, Exedy Clutch, DBA Rotors
Visuals: FG XR Wheel, XR Front, 17's, BA 5 Spd Shifter, BA Ghia Window Switches, NL Cluster
Tunes: 8" Pioneer Sub, JBL Speakers, Clarion Double DIN Headunit

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 Post subject: Re: TimmyA's 93 ED Falcon
Posted: Sun Nov 27, 2016 11:52 pm 
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I think for easier compatibility, running the AUII master along with the AUII dual diaphragm booster - and yes booster is metal.

Yeah, you will need to redrill holes - with RD's AUI.5 XR8 we made a cardboard template off the new booster, for marking the holes on the firewall - fitted up easier enough, had no probs like Troy with the firewall lip over the top.

Don't know about the ED mast cyls - only what Troy's wrote - the AUII mast will fit straight over onto the EF/EL brake pipes without an issue. Only uncertainty is if the booster clears the overhead firewall lip - Troy had an issue with his AUI, we didn't have an issue with RD's AUI.5 - from memory someone wrote it fit an EF firewall without mod.

Split point is actioned by the proportioning valve which sits in a parallel cylinder to the main primary/secondary cylinder.

Thing is Tim, I've only reasoned since we're making significant changes to an earlier brake system to AUII equivalent, that the hydraulics be upgraded to AUII std as well, as the cars are also similar in weight distribution and shape. The AUII has a 30% primary cylinder capacity increase, with the split point raised to maintain front/rear balance. This is all engineered and tested - I doubt any of these guys who have done conversions like this have even considered this, and it's impossible to fully test all of this to know if the earlier setup will cut it. It's all a bit late when hurtling toward a tree to find the system is wanting.

Try it with the existing hydraulics, but be careful - the fluid flow to the fronts won't keep up with the bigger capacity needed, and the lower split point will mean reduced rear braking starting at lower pressures (more front bias). I'd say the brakes will feel better than what you're used to - meaning it will feel an improvement, but I'd doubt you'll realise the full capability.

 

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96 XH Longreach 'S': LPG, Alarm, 3.23:1 LSD, Cruise, Trip Comp, ABS, Power Windows, Mid Series Dome Lt, Climate Ctrl
97 EL Futura S/W: LPG, Alarm, LED int Lts, Trip Comp, F/Lane Dome Lt, Climate Ctrl, T5 Conversion

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 Post subject: Re: TimmyA's 93 ED Falcon
Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2016 12:27 am 
Oompa Loompa
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Location: Geraldton
WA, Australia

Hi Im having trouble finding a 1520 ohm resistor for the cruise control modification ... Just wondering if you could let me know where you got yours from..Thanks Graham


Barnzey wrote:
Hi Im looking at installing A FG steering wheel in to my XH can you give me any more details on doing it.. I already have the AU sterio controls in my XH...
Thanks Graham
TimmyA wrote:
No worries mate...

Cruise buttons modify basically exactly the same way...

The cruise buttons I reckon would work on a BA as only on resistor is different and its basically within the 5% tolerance I guess an SMD resistor would have...

The radio buttons are massively different...

Recap on the BA ones then under it the FG ones

Image

Image

And this is the mod to the cruise side to work with EL cruise

Image

One should note the two red wise are not connected... The red wire for the radio buttons is the sense into the PAC unit I have... The red wire on the cruise is the horn wire colour used in the buttons too... Pink will be send (basically just a ground) out of the cruise module Purple will be receive (sense)...

The spare bung in the cruise switches I am considering for one of two things...

Option one is to cycle the digital read out in the NL cluster I have to go in... Thats if it will stay in diagnostic mode once you enter into it... The you can cycle while driving to see various info without reaching through the wheel... Other option is as a cruise "off" button, but I may make up the flip flop so the one button works as on and off (something I still haven't found the motivation for...)

So thats it for the moment... Done enough study on it for tonight... I know where I stand now...

Cheers,
Tim

 

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 Post subject: Re: TimmyA's 93 ED Falcon
Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2016 6:48 am 
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Ride: ED Falcon

Power: 133 rwkw

Location: Leeton
NSW, Australia

You won't find one... No such thing... That's purely the maths used to match the original values...

On the original buttons but, the resistors are on rungs right adjacent to the buttons, not on the sides forming a voltage drop network...

It's hard to use this website on my phone and jump back and forth between pages... But I'll hazard a guess that, set- is 120ohm set+ is 680ohm, coast is 2k2ohm...

If you create a direct branch from the wire origin to the coast but you can use the 2k2 as per the factory buttons... But here to calculate what is required, minus what is already present:

Resistor required = resistance required - resistance present = 120-0 =120 (set-)
Resistor required = resistance required - resistance present = 680-120 = 560 (set+)
Resistor required = resistance required - resistance present = 2200-680 = 1520 (coast)

You can't buy a 1520... No such thing... You can try a 1500... A 1% tolerance will be between 1485 and 1515... You can take a meter to the store and find a high tolerance one... A 5% will be between 1425 and 1575... Same deal...

I reckon I probably just grabbed any old 1500 and tried it and it worked... If you find it doesn't you can do any number of things from resistors in series, parallel to a dedicated 2k2 branch... For instance a 1r5 in series with a r20 will give you 1r52 ohms...

Get creative... Try it out... You'll find something that works...

Ray, as always thanks for your wisdom... I'll suss out my brothers au1 Ute to see what the master configuration looks like... And I'll try buy a booster and AU2 master then, au1 will be the closest thing I have to compare with on the short term...

Silver car has abs, so the front lines need to come out anyway and be swapped over... Maybe I just buy straight pipe and fittings and make my own front lines up, copy the originals in a fashion... I'd like to reroute the lines so you don't see them go up over the top of the motor... Looks tacky... Might be able to run them behind the head away from too much heat, or slide some fibreglass tube over them maybe... I'll look around on some other cars for inspiration...

Cheers,
Tim

 

_________________

93 Red ED 5spd Manual Build Thread

Performance: Complete AUII VCT Wiring & Power Train, Pacey Headers, 2.5" Exhaust, Exedy Clutch, DBA Rotors
Visuals: FG XR Wheel, XR Front, 17's, BA 5 Spd Shifter, BA Ghia Window Switches, NL Cluster
Tunes: 8" Pioneer Sub, JBL Speakers, Clarion Double DIN Headunit

Top
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 Post subject: Re: TimmyA's 93 ED Falcon
Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2016 11:49 am 
Oompa Loompa
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Joined: 16th Dec 2008

Location: Geraldton
WA, Australia

TimmyA wrote:
You won't find one... No such thing... That's purely the maths used to match the original values...

On the original buttons but, the resistors are on rungs right adjacent to the buttons, not on the sides forming a voltage drop network...

It's hard to use this website on my phone and jump back and forth between pages... But I'll hazard a guess that, set- is 120ohm set+ is 680ohm, coast is 2k2ohm...

If you create a direct branch from the wire origin to the coast but you can use the 2k2 as per the factory buttons... But here to calculate what is required, minus what is already present:

Resistor required = resistance required - resistance present = 120-0 =120 (set-)
Resistor required = resistance required - resistance present = 680-120 = 560 (set+)
Resistor required = resistance required - resistance present = 2200-680 = 1520 (coast)

You can't buy a 1520... No such thing... You can try a 1500... A 1% tolerance will be between 1485 and 1515... You can take a meter to the store and find a high tolerance one... A 5% will be between 1425 and 1575... Same deal...

I reckon I probably just grabbed any old 1500 and tried it and it worked... If you find it doesn't you can do any number of things from resistors in series, parallel to a dedicated 2k2 branch... For instance a 1r5 in series with a r20 will give you 1r52 ohms...

Get creative... Try it out... You'll find something that works...

Ray, as always thanks for your wisdom... I'll suss out my brothers au1 Ute to see what the master configuration looks like... And I'll try buy a booster and AU2 master then, au1 will be the closest thing I have to compare with on the short term...

Silver car has abs, so the front lines need to come out anyway and be swapped over... Maybe I just buy straight pipe and fittings and make my own front lines up, copy the originals in a fashion... I'd like to reroute the lines so you don't see them go up over the top of the motor... Looks tacky... Might be able to run them behind the head away from too much heat, or slide some fibreglass tube over them maybe... I'll look around on some other cars for inspiration...

Cheers,
Tim

Thanks Heaps for your help...

 

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