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Upgraded to BF II Turbo 

 

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 Post subject: Re: Upgraded to BF II Turbo
Posted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 5:10 pm 
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Grimketel wrote:
frankieh wrote:
Excellent! That is one thing I am still missing.. a 4 inch dump pipe.. my exhaust guy said I needed one badly. Already have the big cat and it made a big difference by itself.

Also wanted to ask you if the BOV made any difference.. apparently the factory jobs lose their tension and leak out boost the older they get.. mine is 10 years old and has done lots of miles so I just picked up an autotechnica one.. (mightycarmods on yourtube dyno'd with a heap of them and only the factory one had less performance so I didn't think spending lots of money made much sense for a BOV... I got a plumb back one as I am not interested in the shhhh noise and attention from cops.)

One of the things I have never done that I want to do is to go to a dyno day.. never had one of my cars dyno'd and I think it's about time.. then going to take the car out to the local race track near the airport and give it a thrashing for a few hours.. followed by trying to break 12 seconds on the strip. (that will be after the JTG is on and I have much more power and a better gearbox)


As far as the bov went it picked up responsiveness- made it feel less lethargic coming on boost. Doesn't really add power, but does help the life of the turbo. Boost leaks means the turbo has to spin harder to achieve the preordained boost level.

It's my first trip to the dyno, never had a car worth dyno'ing before. It's not ready for the strip just yet- even though I am anxious to see what it does. There's not that much point if I'm loosing 5lbs of top end boost to crappy factory exhaust gear. It will kill trap speed fairly hard.

Also having a brake shudder issue in the rears when stopping from above 90kmh. Not 100% sure what's causing it but from what I have read signs are pointing to a bush or bushes somewhere not doing their job, and things moving around as a result of braking forces. Not going to slam down a 160kph run with unreliable rears.



excellent.. my BOV is just a cheapie.. but should do the job much better than a 10 year old factory plastic Bosch job. one thing that peeves me at the moment is the time it takes when you stamp your foot to where it really throws you back.. I suspect I have leaks around the piping as well as a dodgy bypass valve. have yet to find a good way to look for leaks. was thinking of pulling the output off the TB and looosly blocking the output so it builds up some pressure at idle.. then tip soapy water on the pipework and look for bubbling. You are also lucky to have the ZF.. when you put your foot in which the BTR, it seems to think for about 3 seconds, then drop back to first for about 4 seconds before swapping to second.. the results make it seem laggy.. once it does hit it's awesome, but that pause while it's working up to it is annoying. The T56 will put paid to that as well.

I was also wondering if fitting the much smaller plastic intake from a FG XR6T would be hard... they are better insulation, they are smaller volume and lighter.. that is three wins. If could be made to fit reasonably easy it might be worth buying the one I saw on gumtree on the cheap. I think the biggest difference to lag for me will be throwing out my intercooler and most of the piping.. The water to air is more or less completely redundant on a car where the LPG is injected as a freezing cold liquid... but I'm doing it anyway so I have other options if I need them. Since the water to air will fit under my new bonnet hump it should allow a pipe to come straigth up from the turbo, through the intercooler on the tappet cover and straight into the intake.. saving a huge amount of internal volume of piping and intercooler.. and hopefully massively reducing lag. The water to air is off a subaru RS turbo... I have a guy at the uni welding new inlet and outlets to it so it is better suited to the position it will be taking.. very cool.
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 Post subject: Re: Upgraded to BF II Turbo
Posted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 8:34 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Power: 253 rwkw

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frankieh wrote:
excellent.. my BOV is just a cheapie.. but should do the job much better than a 10 year old factory plastic Bosch job. one thing that peeves me at the moment is the time it takes when you stamp your foot to where it really throws you back.. I suspect I have leaks around the piping as well as a dodgy bypass valve. have yet to find a good way to look for leaks. was thinking of pulling the output off the TB and looosly blocking the output so it builds up some pressure at idle.. then tip soapy water on the pipework and look for bubbling. You are also lucky to have the ZF.. when you put your foot in which the BTR, it seems to think for about 3 seconds, then drop back to first for about 4 seconds before swapping to second.. the results make it seem laggy.. once it does hit it's awesome, but that pause while it's working up to it is annoying. The T56 will put paid to that as well.

I was also wondering if fitting the much smaller plastic intake from a FG XR6T would be hard... Since the water to air will fit under my new bonnet hump it should allow a pipe to come straigth up from the turbo, through the intercooler on the tappet cover and straight into the intake.. saving a huge amount of internal volume of piping and intercooler.. and hopefully massively reducing lag. The water to air is off a subaru RS turbo... I have a guy at the uni welding new inlet and outlets to it so it is better suited to the position it will be taking.. very cool.


Pretty much anything is better than a 10 year old bosch bov. Got mine from GFB in Sydney- took two days to get here in the post. Special design that doesn't require spring changes, can run any amount of boost at any time, and at 200 bucks was really well priced. Solid construction too.

Thing is, if you go to t56, the BOV is going to get a much bigger work out, since you are closing the throttle between changes. It's not so bad with an auto, unless you come off the power really suddenly. With boost leaks, just check every ring clamp on the hot side too-- I found a loose one, the stress of dealing with boost pressure unraveled its tooth mechanism.

Not 100% sure the FG turbo intake would fit- since they have a different intake manifold the positioning of the TB may be off. APS do a bolt on replacement that eliminates the crossover but you have to relocate air filter to battery side iirc. Alternatively you can relocate to battery side and just plug the cold side of the cross over up.

As far as lag goes these are a big turbo relatively, there will always be a bit of it. Other option is to look into fitting a FG turbo, if you don't plan on going higher than 12 psi. Being a smaller turbo they spool much quicker. The dump pipe will help turbo response also.

The ZF is nice- especially off the line. First gear nice and punchy. Barely gets time to hit full boost before 2nd hits. It's a bit more dopey than I had hoped, takes time to sort itself out sometimes. That must be fords soft programing though? If I give it the beans, sometimes it will hold the low gear far into when it should be cruising as well. Don't know what thats about. Still needs a service. Fresh oil will help auto response in any case if the fluid in it is old.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Upgraded to BF II Turbo
Posted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 8:44 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1td7kE-6QeM

The vid at about 5 mins has the APS crossover in it. Vid is full APS stage III kit, makes 330 rwkw. No too shabby.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Upgraded to BF II Turbo
Posted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 2:36 pm 
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Grimketel wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1td7kE-6QeM

The vid at about 5 mins has the APS crossover in it. Vid is full APS stage III kit, makes 330 rwkw. No too shabby.



Very cool... but I'm not an off the shelf sorta guy.. for some reason I like to do it myself.

Spent ages working out how I planned to inter-cool the EL with the M90, and that is the system I'd like to use with the XR6T.. subaru RS turbo water to air intercooler where the crossover is now, inline coolant pump and a half inch thick full width cooler up the front. (much much thinner than the air to air stuck up in there now.) I already have all that gear from the EL.

That gives me room for the big oil cooler and transmission cooler to fit in front of... And the JTG gas makes the intercooler redundant. But it will also be my creation and one of a kind.. which is sorta how I roll. :-)

I sometimes wish I would just buy off the shelf and have done with it, but I usually get over it.

I now own two BOV's.. forgot I had a ebay snipe set up for a new black monza and I won it for 12.50 + 5 shipping.. so I have a choice once they arrive.
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 Post subject: Re: Upgraded to BF II Turbo
Posted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 12:18 pm 
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frankieh wrote:

Very cool... but I'm not an off the shelf sorta guy.. for some reason I like to do it myself.



I hear you there, DIY is always fun and gives a certain pride that you did it. Did that a lot with the AU, sometimes worked other times, not. Always good to see what the pro's do to get ideas though. APS were the first to get a piggybacked BA turbo past 300km/h back before flash tunes existed for them. I would totally go the APS crossover and bigger cooler, but it changes the look of the bay, and that's a killer for me since I want it to be hard to pick that it isn't all factory.

If I can get it to 250+ rwkw with just injectors, dump+cat and tune, while retaining stock catback (for noise), stock rims, stock ride height etc I will be happy with that. That's about 325+kw at the engine in what looks like a stock 245kw turbo :) will make these R8's s**t their dacks.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Upgraded to BF II Turbo
Posted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 2:58 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Grimketel wrote:
frankieh wrote:

Very cool... but I'm not an off the shelf sorta guy.. for some reason I like to do it myself.



I hear you there, DIY is always fun and gives a certain pride that you did it. Did that a lot with the AU, sometimes worked other times, not. Always good to see what the pro's do to get ideas though. APS were the first to get a piggybacked BA turbo past 300km/h back before flash tunes existed for them. I would totally go the APS crossover and bigger cooler, but it changes the look of the bay, and that's a killer for me since I want it to be hard to pick that it isn't all factory.

If I can get it to 250+ rwkw with just injectors, dump+cat and tune, while retaining stock catback (for noise), stock rims, stock ride height etc I will be happy with that. That's about 325+kw at the engine in what looks like a stock 245kw turbo :) will make these R8's s**t their dacks.


True, lots to learn from the pro's.. that is why I spend so much time reading fordmods.. :-)

APS do some good gear and that video is mint.. TBH I like the factory look in the engine bay too, but to put the JTG gas in is going to break that anyway, so I may as well do the intercooler and stuff while I am there. I am also moving the battery to the boot too.. Guess it is now big deal to move the airbox to the other side. The APS stuff is so good that it does kinda look factory... I'd doubt most cops could tell the difference.

I received my new autotechnica BOV today which I promptly rigged up as a plumb back. way bigger than a factory plastic bosch so though I could hook it up in the factory position, I couldn't put the xover back on.. so had to plumb it over to on top of the ABS module. I don't think it's opening when I take the foot off as I'm still hearing the shuddering noise when the foot comes off.. I suspect the clear hose I used for the vacuum is collapsing and blocking off instead of pulling the BOV piston up.
Failing that I may have to make some spring adjustments or something.
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 Post subject: Re: Upgraded to BF II Turbo
Posted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 6:51 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Ride: BFII Turbo

Power: 253 rwkw

Location: Waurn Ponds
VIC, Australia

Is it fluttering on low boost or at full boost?

If its only at low boost/throttle then it isn't much of an issue, but if it's on full boost it can do damage over time.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Upgraded to BF II Turbo
Posted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 7:18 pm 
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Grimketel wrote:
Is it fluttering on low boost or at full boost?

If its only at low boost/throttle then it isn't much of an issue, but if it's on full boost it can do damage over time.


It doesn't flutter at all that I can hear when the boost is on, hard or otherwise.. but when I take my foot off after some hard boost I here the flutter. There is a giant brand new autotechnica BOV on there now, so today I will change the vacuum hose for a non collapsible job and see if that makes any difference..

It might be that the spring is too strong or the vacuum too weak to pull the spring up. I might have a new vacuum leak somewhere as my boost gauge is not reading the same boost that the ODB2 is outputting. the old bosch job worked, but the spring was much weaker than the new one.... Also, the fluttering happened with the old one too which leads me to think it wasn't being triggered either.

Thinking it might be time to unplumb the new one and put the trumpet on so I can hear it to tell if it is working correctly.

Update.. Not a vacuum leak, as I just put an old mechanical boost guage on the vacuum tree and went for a quick spin.. Went straight up past 11psi no worries.. Also replaced the vacuum line for some good stuff from your work (Repco I mean) didn't make any difference. Maybe it is working and I just can't hear it. tomorrow I'll put one of the trumpets on and see if it makes any difference.
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 Post subject: Re: Upgraded to BF II Turbo
Posted: Sun May 18, 2014 1:05 am 
Getting Side Ways
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Ride: BFII Turbo

Power: 253 rwkw

Location: Waurn Ponds
VIC, Australia

Quick update on a few fronts:

Rear brake shudder is still evident over 80kmh. Recently had the front and rear diff bushes done, as they were highly worn. According to the guys who did the job, the spherical bushes (as I understand, the control arm bushes) are in a bad state also, and could be causing the shudder. Saving up some coin to get them done too.

If the problem persists after the bushes are done, then will have to look into the abs side of things.

Threw a cheap boost gauge on to see if I can ping what is causing the car to throw up the p1132 PID. Boosting up to 10-11 psi straight up, dropping to 7psi at the top of the range, but going up to 10-11 psi again on upshift. IE (ist gear) 10 psi, 8psi, 7psi, 6psi (change to 2nd gear) 11psi, 9 psi, 7psi, 6psi etc.

Engine is also cutting out on hard launches if on an uphill. I'm starting to wonder if traction control has any boost cut feature in it also?

It seems it is having trouble either making or holding boost through to the top of the rev range. Chris @ Daltons is thinking either dump and Cat, or actuator is worn out.

Meanwhile the poor ZF keeps getting its service put on the back burner.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Upgraded to BF II Turbo
Posted: Thu Sep 10, 2015 12:29 am 
Getting Side Ways
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Ride: BFII Turbo

Power: 253 rwkw

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Better late than never. Over a year since the last update, much to my dismay.

Saving for a house has its drawbacks...

over the last year and a bit the old girl has been in an out of workshops like crazy.
- Front left hub.
- Spherical bushes.
- Front right hub.
- ZF service.
- 2 new tyres and front left hand lower ball joint.
-Front left hub again.
-Did a self serve on the loom sleeve on the ZF.
-Shocks all round and control blade chassis bushes.
-New cat and muffler.

Then finally, finally the re-tune it has been working towards this whole time.

Took her into BPR in Geelong (Matts new workshop is really picking up some steam there) and got a full dyno sesh. Matt spent a lot of time (practically most of the day) chasing down issues and getting specifics set and made 250kw at the wheels at the limit of the fuel pump. Any further and too much fuel was missing. Dialed it back to about 245 for safety on an '11psi' tune, which doesn't mean much with stock actuator and gate port. Comes on way harder and holds onto the surge all the way now rather than running out of puff. Better on fuel too, supposedly, but I've been giving it too much 'fun' to make any claims there yet.

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 Post subject: Re: Upgraded to BF II Turbo
Posted: Thu Sep 10, 2015 11:49 am 
Getting Side Ways
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wow.. that's awesome!

Good to see Matt is getting work.. seems like a nice guy. He is the one I got my Binary editor off of.

your car must be driving like new now. (except with way more power). I've got a 4 inch dump pipe and water to air intercooler to put in. (as well as a manual T56) and then I'm doing the full tune thing again too.



cheers

Frank
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 Post subject: Re: Upgraded to BF II Turbo
Posted: Thu Sep 10, 2015 2:36 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Incidently, if you want to get more from your fuel pump, get one of these.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Magnacharger-Fuel-Pump-Voltage-Booster-/150688225260

Basically, at 3psi it will up the voltage to the fuel pump from 14.4 up to 17 volts. I got mine because the JTG people (liquid LPG injection) say the upgraded fuel pump can handle it easy and a second pump if I end up going crazy for power is not required.. just the voltage booster.. so I got the install fitted with a relay where the voltage booster would go so it was ready to be wired in when needed.

It's a pretty common thing it seems. I have one of those, and a sightly different one that boosts the coil voltage up to 18 volts. Means I can run the LPG 4 terminal silver brisk plugs (which have a set big gap) and my weaponX coils will get enough voltage to jump the gap fine under hard boost.
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 Post subject: Re: Upgraded to BF II Turbo
Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2015 1:42 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Ride: BFII Turbo

Power: 253 rwkw

Location: Waurn Ponds
VIC, Australia

They look pretty neat, did not know they even existed!

Definitely drives like new, especially now that the springs are getting the correct dampning and the rear end is solid. Feels like a new car to drive. Got 155,000 kms out of the factory shocks, fair to say there was nothing left in them. As it turned out they were so f**k (front struts would compress by hand and then stay there) that it was the springs working the dampners lol.

As far as the fuel situation goes, it will be a full pump replacement upgrade rather than a voltage booster, as the factory pump is unable to perform 100% anymore.

Went for a 5 hr blast through some squiggly tarmac in country Victoria last weekend, and after abhout 2.5 hrs of operation, followed by a 20 min stop, the car began to surge and lose power on hard acceleration. Not gradual accel, just hard. The pump was getting hot and not even going easy for half an hr could get it to start delivering max fuel again. Would idle, run and mild accel fine, just not when you sunk the boot. Next day, runs fine through all conditions. I think upping the voltage might accelerate it's demise.

BPR recons it can do a walbro 255 install for around $400. May or may not need a slight retickle on the rollers. Depends what the wallet looks like, and atm that is pretty shattered after the custom tune and a two week holiday :)

How much did the wepX coils set you back? I've been thinking about adding them to the mix for added safety for a while now.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Upgraded to BF II Turbo
Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2015 2:15 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Gallery: 32 images

Ride: BA XR6T (mix of BA, BF and FG)

Location: Perth
WA, Australia

Grimketel wrote:
They look pretty neat, did not know they even existed!

Definitely drives like new, especially now that the springs are getting the correct dampning and the rear end is solid. Feels like a new car to drive. Got 155,000 kms out of the factory shocks, fair to say there was nothing left in them. As it turned out they were so f**k (front struts would compress by hand and then stay there) that it was the springs working the dampners lol.

As far as the fuel situation goes, it will be a full pump replacement upgrade rather than a voltage booster, as the factory pump is unable to perform 100% anymore.

Went for a 5 hr blast through some squiggly tarmac in country Victoria last weekend, and after abhout 2.5 hrs of operation, followed by a 20 min stop, the car began to surge and lose power on hard acceleration. Not gradual accel, just hard. The pump was getting hot and not even going easy for half an hr could get it to start delivering max fuel again. Would idle, run and mild accel fine, just not when you sunk the boot. Next day, runs fine through all conditions. I think upping the voltage might accelerate it's demise.

BPR recons it can do a walbro 255 install for around $400. May or may not need a slight retickle on the rollers. Depends what the wallet looks like, and atm that is pretty shattered after the custom tune and a two week holiday :)

How much did the wepX coils set you back? I've been thinking about adding them to the mix for added safety for a while now.


The weaponX coils were around $450 from memory. I found the car didn't start as easily after I put them in as before as the coils really like a good power feed which is why I started looking at voltage boosters.. solved the problem but it wasn't really that much of a big deal anyway. Once the engine was running they are fine. They're just high output coils, so they love a good power feed.

If you are going to get BPR to do a retune after the pump and you are thinking about the weaponX, then get the coils first as Matt can tune the dwell for the weaponXs to get the most from them. But failing that, they work out of the box.
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