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EL ECU in an XG ute BIG PROBLEMS!!!!! 

 

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 Post subject: Re: EL ECU in an XG ute BIG PROBLEMS!!!!!
Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 11:51 pm 
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None of the self test codes would cause this problem. You can count that out.

Does it smell like its overfueling ?

I'm a bit stumped for any suggestions, do you have a spare MAP sensor to try? You could also try disconnecting the MAP sensor altogether, the ECU will go into limp, but you may get an idea if the problem is related when a default value is substituted for it.

Try unplugging the BBM electrical connection, just in case there is a wiring problem there causing only the EL to fault.

Others are right about the EL Xr6 ECU being wrong, its going to be under fuelled on a std motor, stick it on eBay you will get good $$ for it. Stick with the std ECU.

Once you do get it running right, look at getting it chipped to convert it to a manual ECU.
Although fooling the auto ECU with resistor's some what works, the Manual ECU's have more aggressive midrange timing maps, giving you more torque than an Auto ECU in that range. There is also the dash-pot and deceleration differences. You have issues somewhere that need fixing before getting a chip and tune though.
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 Post subject: Re: EL ECU in an XG ute BIG PROBLEMS!!!!!
Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 1:32 am 
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It doesnt really smell like its over fueling it just seems to have a bit more of a lump idle than it does with the XG ECU. I was more thinking that it could be running lean. If it was running lean I would have white crap all over my spark plugs yeah??

I have purchased and put on a new map sensor already. I even tried swapping back to the old one to see if this fixed things. I also have a new o2 sensor in there with a new fuel pump, and fuel filter AND new AU injectors (not the reconditioned one)

That was a very good idea about unplugging the BBM electrical connection. I will give that a go in the morning. I'm at the stage where I will give anything a go. I'm guessing by electrical connection you mean the vacuum switch for the bbm??? The switch currently works when the car revs up to 3600rpm or 3800rp,which ever it is.

I did have an auto ECU in there with the resistor trick already but I didnt really like the dash pot on it with the little bit of excess rev hang. I also got rid of it because I thought it was causing this problem which it is apparent that it is not.

Apart from the BBM vacuum switch, do you suggest that I should unplug anything else to rule this problem out???

The other thing I did notice which was quite weird was when I was checking the Throttle position sensor. I put a pin down the top of the ECU wiring connector on whatever pin it was meant to be in (i dont have the workshop manual infront of me) With Key on Engine Off i got 0.75V. Once the engine was started it went to 0.85v and the idle for some reason stayed at 1000rpm. I pulled out the pin because I thought it must be shorting on something else which would be nearly impossible and the RPM dropped down to normal.

Maybe this might have been because it was earthing through my volt meter? or maybe there might be a bad connection in the wiring connector to the actual ECU. However I'm sure that if the TPS was playing up it would show up on the XG ECU aswell.

It was just something I noticed that seemed very odd. When i check all the other sensors by piggy backing off the wiring connector to the ecu I have no problems.

I really appreciate all you guys helping me sort this out. Keep the idea's coming. I am trying everything!!

 

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XG Ute. BBM conversion, EL ECU + J3 Chip, 3" Stainless Steel Intake Pipe, K&N Pod Filter, Wade 1673 Camshaft, Pacemaker extractors, 2.5 Inch Hi-Flow Cat, 2.5 Inch exhaust, Cab Extension, 18" FG GT Rims, resprayed in blueprint.

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 Post subject: Re: EL ECU in an XG ute BIG PROBLEMS!!!!!
Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 1:44 am 
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snap0964 wrote:
I'm thinking running the EF/EL cable with XG pedal is a prob - can always borrow an EF/EL pedal from someone to sort out this one.


In regards to the EF/EL pedal I will try to get down to U Pull It and get one from there, a couple of bolts and its off, nice and easy. I did notice with the XG pedal it is extremely light to push down but I have gotten used to it. When I checked the pedal from inside the car via the TPS it showed that it had nice even increment range when I pushed it in slowly by the voltage going up steadily from 0.75v - 4.3v when it was mashed to the floor. I don't particularly think it sits high it just seems really light to push down. But as I said I will give anything a go. Thanks for your advice.

Yes I do feel reluctant to take my car down to a tuners and get a j3 chip to see if it can fix the problem. But I doubt the tuners would have any more of an idea than what i do with the current situation. Unless of course it is the fuel maps which we agree it shouldn't be because I cannot check this from home.

Got any more idea's to explore? :D

 

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XG Ute. BBM conversion, EL ECU + J3 Chip, 3" Stainless Steel Intake Pipe, K&N Pod Filter, Wade 1673 Camshaft, Pacemaker extractors, 2.5 Inch Hi-Flow Cat, 2.5 Inch exhaust, Cab Extension, 18" FG GT Rims, resprayed in blueprint.

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 Post subject: Re: EL ECU in an XG ute BIG PROBLEMS!!!!!
Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 4:08 am 
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Alright I have done some research triggered by AndrewT12 and have come up with the following results. I was researching the differences between the XG (EB-ED) computer and the EL ECU.

EL ECU
8 Fuel Select (Tickford LPG Models Only) Petrol >9Volts, LPG 0Volts
13 LPG Cut Off Solenoid 0V LPG On, 12V LPG Off
15 Broadband Manifold <3800RPM 0V, >3800RPM 12V
23 Knock Sensor +3V Engine Running
26 Not used
32 LPG Gas Shut Off LPG Off 12Volts, LPG On 0Volts
39 Speed Sensitive Power Steering 0V-12V PWM signal
41 Air Conditioning Compressor 12Volts Engaged, 0V Off
44 Blower Fan Speed High Speed 12V, Off 0V
53 Electric Fan Output 1 12V Relay 1 Off-0V Relay 1 On


XG ECU
8 Not used
13 Not used
15 Not used
23 Not used
26 Sensor Reference Voltage +5Volt output
32 Recirculation Solenoid 12V Outside Air, Recirc 1.0V
39 Not used
41 Not used
44 Not used
53 Not used

All other the other pins matched and did the exact same thing.
I'm going to spend some time with my good old friend the multimeter and check all these pins and see what i get. I had a thought that I hooked up the wire for the knock sensor and plugged it into the ecu but since my block did not have the hole for the knock sensor I just left the wire there. Maybe this is picking up a small conductive voltage from the power around the wire causing my issue. I'll see how I go and post my findings.

 

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XG Ute. BBM conversion, EL ECU + J3 Chip, 3" Stainless Steel Intake Pipe, K&N Pod Filter, Wade 1673 Camshaft, Pacemaker extractors, 2.5 Inch Hi-Flow Cat, 2.5 Inch exhaust, Cab Extension, 18" FG GT Rims, resprayed in blueprint.

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 Post subject: Re: EL ECU in an XG ute BIG PROBLEMS!!!!!
Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 8:37 am 
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pin 26 on the el ecu is signal reference voltage, same as xg
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 Post subject: Re: EL ECU in an XG ute BIG PROBLEMS!!!!!
Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 10:00 am 
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Saltez! wrote:
I had a thought that I hooked up the wire for the knock sensor and plugged it into the ecu but since my block did not have the hole for the knock sensor I just left the wire there. Maybe this is picking up a small conductive voltage from the power around the wire causing my issue. I'll see how I go and post my findings.
Bit of a shame it's not a later XG (94 onwards) - will have the threaded hole for the knock sensor.
Is the head 94AB ?? - you mentioned you fitted the EL rocker cover, it won't seal (or possibly fit) properly around the half moon areas on the earlier 91AA head.
Saltez! wrote:
In regards to the EF/EL pedal I will try to get down to U Pull It and get one from there, a couple of bolts and its off, nice and easy. I did notice with the XG pedal it is extremely light to push down but I have gotten used to it. When I checked the pedal from inside the car via the TPS it showed that it had nice even increment range when I pushed it in slowly by the voltage going up steadily from 0.75v - 4.3v when it was mashed to the floor. I don't particularly think it sits high it just seems really light to push down.
So long you can get it cheap enough - hence why I suggested borrowing one out of someone else's car. It may not make any difference, so you don't want to spend out needlessly. Made a difference with mine as I say - flat spots a plenty, and I compared them and they were different.

 

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96 XH Longreach 'S': LPG, Alarm, 3.23:1 LSD, Cruise, Trip Comp, ABS, Power Windows, Mid Series Dome Lt, Climate Ctrl
97 EL Futura S/W: LPG, Alarm, LED int Lts, Trip Comp, F/Lane Dome Lt, Climate Ctrl, T5 Conversion

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 Post subject: Re: EL ECU in an XG ute BIG PROBLEMS!!!!!
Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 12:25 pm 
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Yeah i thought it was bit of a shame too that I couldn't fit the knock sensor, the rocker cover fits perfectly though and does not leak or anything so at least thats good.

I'm not suffering from any rev hang so I imagine that no air is getting through the rocker cover seals anyway. I'm just about to head outside and check out this wiring. So i'll post back in a couple of hours.

So you experienced flat spots with the XG pedal hey?? I understand the ratio's might be different but I can't understand why it would cause that. I definitely might have to explore this further. As I said before, i will give everything a go, even just to rule it out as a possible problem. It should only cost me a few bucks to change it as I'm a tow truck driver and tow the cars into u pull it all the time. I pretty much get stuff for free there!!

 

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XG Ute. BBM conversion, EL ECU + J3 Chip, 3" Stainless Steel Intake Pipe, K&N Pod Filter, Wade 1673 Camshaft, Pacemaker extractors, 2.5 Inch Hi-Flow Cat, 2.5 Inch exhaust, Cab Extension, 18" FG GT Rims, resprayed in blueprint.

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 Post subject: Re: EL ECU in an XG ute BIG PROBLEMS!!!!!
Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 4:06 pm 
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alright so after checking the pins i mentioned above all checked out as normal. The only one that posed any problems was PIN 32 which is the LPG gas shut off. If LPG is off it should read 12v, if LPG is on it should read 0v. When I measured it on my ECU it registered at 0.02v.

Would this only effect LPG gas ECU's??? This could explain a problem with my fuel maps. Should I go out and hook 12v up to this pin to rule this out??? Or would it be a waste of time as my ECU is not a GAS ecu????

 

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XG Ute. BBM conversion, EL ECU + J3 Chip, 3" Stainless Steel Intake Pipe, K&N Pod Filter, Wade 1673 Camshaft, Pacemaker extractors, 2.5 Inch Hi-Flow Cat, 2.5 Inch exhaust, Cab Extension, 18" FG GT Rims, resprayed in blueprint.

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 Post subject: Re: EL ECU in an XG ute BIG PROBLEMS!!!!!
Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 4:21 pm 
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if yours is not a gas ecu, dont worry about it... the pins in reference to lpg is for a duel fuel ecu only..
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 Post subject: Re: EL ECU in an XG ute BIG PROBLEMS!!!!!
Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 4:36 pm 
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well its 6TAA manual EL Xr6 ecu so it shouldn't be a dual gas fuel ecu so it i guess I don't need to worry about it then.

hmmm now i just need to get an EL pedal and rule that out!!

 

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XG Ute. BBM conversion, EL ECU + J3 Chip, 3" Stainless Steel Intake Pipe, K&N Pod Filter, Wade 1673 Camshaft, Pacemaker extractors, 2.5 Inch Hi-Flow Cat, 2.5 Inch exhaust, Cab Extension, 18" FG GT Rims, resprayed in blueprint.

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 Post subject: Re: EL ECU in an XG ute BIG PROBLEMS!!!!!
Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 6:37 pm 
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Alright... I'm grabbing at straws now.

I just chucked in my EL auto ECU 6DBB in the car without the resistor trick and i'm gonna see how that goes from a cold start.

I'm curious to hear from anyone else who suffered from hesitation when running the EB-ED accelerator pedal after they did a BBM conversion.

 

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XG Ute. BBM conversion, EL ECU + J3 Chip, 3" Stainless Steel Intake Pipe, K&N Pod Filter, Wade 1673 Camshaft, Pacemaker extractors, 2.5 Inch Hi-Flow Cat, 2.5 Inch exhaust, Cab Extension, 18" FG GT Rims, resprayed in blueprint.

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 Post subject: Re: EL ECU in an XG ute BIG PROBLEMS!!!!!
Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 6:40 pm 
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okay I just realised that my other ECU 6DBB is from a fairmont.

Don't fairmonts run the tickford xr6 engines and fuel maps??????

 

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XG Ute. BBM conversion, EL ECU + J3 Chip, 3" Stainless Steel Intake Pipe, K&N Pod Filter, Wade 1673 Camshaft, Pacemaker extractors, 2.5 Inch Hi-Flow Cat, 2.5 Inch exhaust, Cab Extension, 18" FG GT Rims, resprayed in blueprint.

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 Post subject: Re: EL ECU in an XG ute BIG PROBLEMS!!!!!
Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 6:45 pm 
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nope, only the fairmont ghia, 6djb had the tickford engine..
changing the pedal will only change the rate of pedal travel, wont do anything for the way the engine runs..
although if you fit the ef/el pedal it will feel more responsive as it will be giving you more throttle with less pedal travel....
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 Post subject: Re: EL ECU in an XG ute BIG PROBLEMS!!!!!
Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 7:32 pm 
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Thanks troyman, I won't waste my time changing the pedal then just yet.

My XG ECU is 2DLA..... Is there anything particularly special about that ECU maybe??? Or is that just a standard XG 4.0L manual ECU??

Just trying to rule out any other possibilities of what my problem could be......

 

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XG Ute. BBM conversion, EL ECU + J3 Chip, 3" Stainless Steel Intake Pipe, K&N Pod Filter, Wade 1673 Camshaft, Pacemaker extractors, 2.5 Inch Hi-Flow Cat, 2.5 Inch exhaust, Cab Extension, 18" FG GT Rims, resprayed in blueprint.

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 Post subject: Re: EL ECU in an XG ute BIG PROBLEMS!!!!!
Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 8:23 pm 
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2dla is strange?? afaik a manual should be eg: 2daa what year is your xg?? 93 model manual will have a 2daa a 94 would have a 3daa... im not sure about a 2dl ????
an auto would normaly be something like 2dba or 3dba..
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