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NF V8 Fairlane limp home mode. 

 

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 Post subject: NF V8 Fairlane limp home mode.
Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 11:07 pm 
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Hi all
Got an issue with the Fairlane. It runs fine until it has been driven for about half an hour then decides to drop its bundle and go into limp home mode.
It locks in 3rd gear , both fans come on flat out and it basically runs like a pig.
I am happy to wreck the car out as per the original plan as it is giving me the s**t but many people have prodded me to look further into whats happening and possibly save the old girl.
The EFI side of things is beyond me so can someone recommend anyone in Sydney that can take a look at it and tell me whats going on and if its a easy fix?
Or is there a Sydney member thats knows their s**t with EEC 5 that can look at it and suss it out for me in exchange for some bucks or cartons?
This is the onlyhope there is to save the old girl. I am more then happy to scrap it , but it would be a shame and I would hate for it to have beat me.
Any help is really appreciated.
Matt

 

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 Post subject: Re: NF V8 Fairlane limp home mode.
Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 11:47 pm 
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Fix it yourself - the education will do you well.
Does the economy caption near the odometer flash while this is happening ?
Have you noticed if the idle is slightly higher when this is happening?
Should be able to pull the fault codes from the TCM as well.

Otherwise, as you've mentioned IIRC, substitute the trans temp with a resistor, remove the pins at the TCM, and temp fit the resistor - all you need to know is at ecu-fuel-system-eec-f21/5-0-ecu-options-manual-conversion-discussion-t48222.html

If you are certain the TC is locking, then it sounds like trans temp - the TC doesn't lock in normal LHM.
The fans sound like another clue to confirm this.

 

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 Post subject: Re: NF V8 Fairlane limp home mode.
Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 11:50 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Dude, I have a scanner we can hook up and see what the go is. Just gotta find the paperwork to read the codes. Am off tomorrow, Call me when you are done at work and i will drop out.

Brett

 

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 Post subject: Re: NF V8 Fairlane limp home mode.
Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 11:54 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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snap0964 wrote:
Fix it yourself - the education will do you well.
Does the economy caption near the odometer flash while this is happening ?
Have you noticed if the idle is slightly higher when this is happening?
Should be able to pull the fault codes from the TCM as well.

Otherwise, as you've mentioned IIRC, substitute the trans temp with a resistor, remove the pins at the TCM, and temp fit the resistor - all you need to know is at ecu-fuel-system-eec-f21/5-0-ecu-options-manual-conversion-discussion-t48222.html

If you are certain the TC is locking, then it sounds like trans temp - the TC doesn't lock in normal LHM.
The fans sound like another clue to confirm this.


Hi Snap
No the economy caption doesnt flash.
Havent noticed with the idle but havent been looking for it. Will check into.
Have substituted the trans temp switch with the resistor and it did no good. Run great for about half an hour then back into limp home mode.
Dont know if TC is locking for sure or not.
Pulling the codes from the ECU and TCM is beyond me. Im hoping to be able to track down a scan tool.
Thanks for your help. Im tipping I will be picking your brain a lot for the moment.

 

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 Post subject: Re: NF V8 Fairlane limp home mode.
Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 11:55 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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TerroristGHIA wrote:
Dude, I have a scanner we can hook up and see what the go is. Just gotta find the paperwork to read the codes. Am off tomorrow, Call me when you are done at work and i will drop out.

Brett


Dude I love you!!!
Will give you a bell tomorrow.
I might have to slip away early I reckon. I think I can feel a half day coming on............

 

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xr6turnip wrote:
More people paid for a ride in a VT commodore then an AU Falcon so the VT is superior.
Based on that fact my Mum is the best around!

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 Post subject: Re: NF V8 Fairlane limp home mode.
Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 12:25 am 
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Fault codes should reveal something.
There is a limp home feature for the ECU, it's called limited operating strategy (LOS) - it happens if there's an internal fault with the ECU.
A couple of features IIRC (there are more) are that timing is set at 0degrees, and all injectors fire at the same time. Might explain poor engine performance. As the engine is running mega rich, should be able to see this from the exhaust smoke.
I'd say easiest way to check this is put a timing light on and increase the revs - if timing stays at zero, then it will be in LOS.
A good idea to borrow an EF/EL 5.0 ECU and swap to see if the problem goes away.

 

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 Post subject: Re: NF V8 Fairlane limp home mode.
Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 1:26 am 
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Don't forget the 2 or 3 time it slammed into gear when accelerating, that can't be good.....

 

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 Post subject: Re: NF V8 Fairlane limp home mode.
Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 8:37 am 
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snap0964 wrote:
Fault codes should reveal something.
There is a limp home feature for the ECU, it's called limited operating strategy (LOS) - it happens if there's an internal fault with the ECU.
A couple of features IIRC (there are more) are that timing is set at 0degrees, and all injectors fire at the same time. Might explain poor engine performance. As the engine is running mega rich, should be able to see this from the exhaust smoke.
I'd say easiest way to check this is put a timing light on and increase the revs - if timing stays at zero, then it will be in LOS.
A good idea to borrow an EF/EL 5.0 ECU and swap to see if the problem goes away.

I notice that all the injectors fire at the same time, so what happens if the engine is running on LPG at the time (duel fuel setup)? Does it even run in limp home mode?

 

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 Post subject: Re: NF V8 Fairlane limp home mode.
Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 11:51 am 
Getting Side Ways
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racedirector wrote:
Don't forget the 2 or 3 time it slammed into gear when accelerating, that can't be good.....



Seeing as though all the shift control on these boxes are electronix Im tipping that it is definately an electrical problem.
The box is as smooth as silk when everything is doing what its meant to so I cant see it being a mechanical issue.
Generally mechanical things dont just clear themselves and go away.
Anyway off to try a couple of things.

 

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xr6turnip wrote:
More people paid for a ride in a VT commodore then an AU Falcon so the VT is superior.
Based on that fact my Mum is the best around!

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 Post subject: Re: NF V8 Fairlane limp home mode.
Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 6:42 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Well some progress has been made.
A HUGE thanks to Terrorist Ghia who braved the somewhat hot afternoon outhere and come out for a look see and bought his trusty code grabbing tool.
Did a couple of tests found a few faults which we could quite easily explain and sorted out and then cleared them all and went for a drive.
Drove well for a couple of minutes and back into limp home mode.
Bought it straight back home , pulled the codes again and found only one code. Code 92 S2 solenoid. This had come up in the original diagnostics code grab.
Got onto the guy who had rebuilt the gearbox to be told that solenoids are not a warrantable item (wtf :roll: ) and it would cost me $200 for it to be fixed.
Myself and Brett went down to the auto trans guy down the road from me and he told us that S2 fault is a very common one and if we were going to have the S2 solenoid changed we should change the S1 as well as it was the same amount of labour to do both and the S1 was more then likley on its way out too,
Quoted $280 to change both solenoids and do a full gearbox service.
We come back home , picked up the boat , took it down and dropped it off to be done tomorrow.
So all going well by tomorrow afternoon I will have a car that runs , doesnt overheat , changes gears and has really cold air conditioning.
Thanks Brett for your help with getting to the bottom of it and the running around with getting it in there and getting me back home. Really appreciated mate!

 

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xr6turnip wrote:
More people paid for a ride in a VT commodore then an AU Falcon so the VT is superior.
Based on that fact my Mum is the best around!

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 Post subject: Re: NF V8 Fairlane limp home mode.
Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 6:44 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Well done..... I assume that the ute is now a gonna then, good while it lasted sort of thing.....

 

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 Post subject: Re: NF V8 Fairlane limp home mode.
Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 6:47 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Still no idea at this time. Take each day as it comes.
At least it didnt beat us.
I reckon actually the ute will get put out the back in cold storage for a spell.
With everything going on at work as of late the whole idea of coming home and working on a project car has become a chore instead of a pleasure. It sucks now too with the way my company has gone the overtime tap has been turned off so there simply isnt the amount of cash to chuck around there once was.
Also I still have to do the engine conversion and a few bits and pieces on Donnas 4 runner that I have been putting off for way too long , she has put up with all the crap going on with my things and had nothing in return. Its well past the time due to fix that situation up.
IF the boat sorts out ok and is a fun cruiser I will do a few small things to personalise it a bit and have some fun but it will nothing longer then a weekend pulled apart and I will not be putting a stack of cash into it.
Time to change a few priorities nowdays. Need to learn how to clean up , kick back and enjoy life a bit instead of constantly working , either at work on on cars..............................

 

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xr6turnip wrote:
More people paid for a ride in a VT commodore then an AU Falcon so the VT is superior.
Based on that fact my Mum is the best around!

Last edited by Matt_jew on Wed Nov 18, 2009 7:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: NF V8 Fairlane limp home mode.
Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 6:55 pm 
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96efghiawagon wrote:
I notice that all the injectors fire at the same time, so what happens if the engine is running on LPG at the time (duel fuel setup)? Does it even run in limp home mode?
The factory LPG ECU shuts down the injectors whilst on LPG - aftermarket setups running the petrol only ECU usually use relays to shut the injectors down.
We're talking conventional converter/mixer setups too.
Timing would still be affected I would think.

 

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 Post subject: Re: NF V8 Fairlane limp home mode.
Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 7:53 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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No probs dude, it was a pleasure to come out. And the hospitality is always good.
I hope ya keep it, Cause i think its a tidy cruiser, not a bruiser.

Brett

 

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 Post subject: Re: NF V8 Fairlane limp home mode.
Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 8:06 pm 
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how did you go matt ???? any luck
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