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advancing timing in el falcon 

 

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 Post subject: advancing timing in el falcon
Posted: Sun Nov 07, 2004 1:04 am 
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just a quick question, how do i advance timing on the el falcon?
i wouldnt mind knowing, esp once i fix the problems its got now, then im thinking the timing might be causing them, but it doesnt fit, so just any info on how to advance it would be great!!
thanks!

 

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Posted: Sun Nov 07, 2004 9:44 am 
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timing light, just use white-out to mark the timing points on the harmonic balancer ...

then a 13mm socket to loosen the dizzy and advance/reteard all you want ... don't go over board though ... mines just advanced just a little ...

once its done, best to run it on PLUP ..
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Posted: Sun Nov 07, 2004 4:43 pm 
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Any idea on how to do it on an EF with the coil packs??
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Posted: Sun Nov 07, 2004 5:24 pm 
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tjb45 wrote:
Any idea on how to do it on an EF with the coil packs??


Nope!
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Posted: Sun Nov 07, 2004 5:39 pm 
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Better yet, get a EL setup :)
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Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 8:54 am 
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tjb45 wrote:
Any idea on how to do it on an EF with the coil packs??


Yeah - via a chip on the J3 port. Sorry dude, no home-jobs for tinkering with EF timing.

 

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Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 11:01 am 
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au2low wrote:
timing light, just use white-out to mark the timing points on the harmonic balancer ...

then a 13mm socket to loosen the dizzy and advance/reteard all you want ... don't go over board though ... mines just advanced just a little ...

once its done, best to run it on PLUP ..


Won't work sorry. The ECU will pick up the engine pinging and just retard the timing back to what it thinks is acceptable.
Remember these cars have no spark map as such, just use the knock sensor and the ECU to provide near optimum spark timing.

 

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Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 11:13 am 
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Nanger wrote:
au2low wrote:
timing light, just use white-out to mark the timing points on the harmonic balancer ...

then a 13mm socket to loosen the dizzy and advance/reteard all you want ... don't go over board though ... mines just advanced just a little ...

once its done, best to run it on PLUP ..


Won't work sorry. The ECU will pick up the engine pinging and just retard the timing back to what it thinks is acceptable.
Remember these cars have no spark map as such, just use the knock sensor and the ECU to provide near optimum spark timing.


I beg to differ.... i agree 100% that the knock sensor has the final say but there should be a fair bit of room to play with (and of course, using suitable fuel) before knocking becomes a problem. EEC should have spark maps but will just use the knock sensor if something's not as it should be....

So long as the engine is in base timing mode (i.e. part of the suite of diagnostic modes) then you'll be able to adjust the timing. So long as you dont go overboard the engine wont knock and the knock sensor wont prompt EEC to retard your hard earned extra 2*BTDC

 

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Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 11:35 am 
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4.9 EF Futura wrote:
Nanger wrote:
au2low wrote:
timing light, just use white-out to mark the timing points on the harmonic balancer ...

then a 13mm socket to loosen the dizzy and advance/reteard all you want ... don't go over board though ... mines just advanced just a little ...

once its done, best to run it on PLUP ..


Won't work sorry. The ECU will pick up the engine pinging and just retard the timing back to what it thinks is acceptable.
Remember these cars have no spark map as such, just use the knock sensor and the ECU to provide near optimum spark timing.


I beg to differ.... i agree 100% that the knock sensor has the final say but there should be a fair bit of room to play with (and of course, using suitable fuel) before knocking becomes a problem. EEC should have spark maps but will just use the knock sensor if something's not as it should be....

So long as the engine is in base timing mode (i.e. part of the suite of diagnostic modes) then you'll be able to adjust the timing. So long as you dont go overboard the engine wont knock and the knock sensor wont prompt EEC to retard your hard earned extra 2*BTDC


When you do adjustments while in diagnostic mode, is that like forcing the ECU to use your manual adjustments instead of what it thinks is better?

I've had an idle problem for a while, but the I finally got around to re-adjusting the Base Idle in diagnostic mode, and set it to 710RPM and that's now where the ECU wants to stay at. I've had the best results I've ever had like this.
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Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 11:48 am 
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Kit wrote:
4.9 EF Futura wrote:
Nanger wrote:
au2low wrote:
timing light, just use white-out to mark the timing points on the harmonic balancer ...

then a 13mm socket to loosen the dizzy and advance/reteard all you want ... don't go over board though ... mines just advanced just a little ...

once its done, best to run it on PLUP ..


Won't work sorry. The ECU will pick up the engine pinging and just retard the timing back to what it thinks is acceptable.
Remember these cars have no spark map as such, just use the knock sensor and the ECU to provide near optimum spark timing.


I beg to differ.... i agree 100% that the knock sensor has the final say but there should be a fair bit of room to play with (and of course, using suitable fuel) before knocking becomes a problem. EEC should have spark maps but will just use the knock sensor if something's not as it should be....

So long as the engine is in base timing mode (i.e. part of the suite of diagnostic modes) then you'll be able to adjust the timing. So long as you dont go overboard the engine wont knock and the knock sensor wont prompt EEC to retard your hard earned extra 2*BTDC


When you do adjustments while in diagnostic mode, is that like forcing the ECU to use your manual adjustments instead of what it thinks is better?

I've had an idle problem for a while, but the I finally got around to re-adjusting the Base Idle in diagnostic mode, and set it to 710RPM and that's now where the ECU wants to stay at. I've had the best results I've ever had like this.


For timing - definately. Putting it into base timing means EEC will leave the timing static, doing it in "normal" mode can have funny effects because EEC is still "looking" at the timing signal whilst you play around with it - under base timing mode, EEC "assumes" the timing is static (at whatever factory base timing is, about 10* BTDC for an I6 i think, 30* BTDC for the V8).

Maybe when you put it into diags to adjust the idle, it's like disconnecting the ISC (which i think is the procedure recommended for adjusting idle) ? Hence the good result you have achieved.

 

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Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 6:00 am 
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4.9 EF Futura wrote:
Kit wrote:
4.9 EF Futura wrote:
Nanger wrote:
au2low wrote:
timing light, just use white-out to mark the timing points on the harmonic balancer ...

then a 13mm socket to loosen the dizzy and advance/reteard all you want ... don't go over board though ... mines just advanced just a little ...

once its done, best to run it on PLUP ..


Won't work sorry. The ECU will pick up the engine pinging and just retard the timing back to what it thinks is acceptable.
Remember these cars have no spark map as such, just use the knock sensor and the ECU to provide near optimum spark timing.


I beg to differ.... i agree 100% that the knock sensor has the final say but there should be a fair bit of room to play with (and of course, using suitable fuel) before knocking becomes a problem. EEC should have spark maps but will just use the knock sensor if something's not as it should be....

So long as the engine is in base timing mode (i.e. part of the suite of diagnostic modes) then you'll be able to adjust the timing. So long as you dont go overboard the engine wont knock and the knock sensor wont prompt EEC to retard your hard earned extra 2*BTDC


When you do adjustments while in diagnostic mode, is that like forcing the ECU to use your manual adjustments instead of what it thinks is better?

I've had an idle problem for a while, but the I finally got around to re-adjusting the Base Idle in diagnostic mode, and set it to 710RPM and that's now where the ECU wants to stay at. I've had the best results I've ever had like this.


For timing - definately. Putting it into base timing means EEC will leave the timing static, doing it in "normal" mode can have funny effects because EEC is still "looking" at the timing signal whilst you play around with it - under base timing mode, EEC "assumes" the timing is static (at whatever factory base timing is, about 10* BTDC for an I6 i think, 30* BTDC for the V8).

Maybe when you put it into diags to adjust the idle, it's like disconnecting the ISC (which i think is the procedure recommended for adjusting idle) ? Hence the good result you have achieved.


Thanks for clearing that up. Makes a lot of sense.
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Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2005 11:52 am 
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4.9 EF Futura wrote:
For timing - definately. Putting it into base timing means EEC will leave the timing static, doing it in "normal" mode can have funny effects because EEC is still "looking" at the timing signal whilst you play around with it - under base timing mode, EEC "assumes" the timing is static (at whatever factory base timing is, about 10* BTDC for an I6 i think, 30* BTDC for the V8).

Maybe when you put it into diags to adjust the idle, it's like disconnecting the ISC (which i think is the procedure recommended for adjusting idle) ? Hence the good result you have achieved.


Sorry for thread mining, but I just want to clarify a few things.

To increase my timing advance on my EL I6, I should put the ECU into base timing mode, and then adjust the timing as per normal (lossen dizzy, and rotate).

Once I have advanced the timing enough, do I leave the ECU in base timing mode, or put it back to normal?

Cheers.

 

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Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2005 11:57 am 
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hornet wrote:

Sorry for thread mining, but I just want to clarify a few things.

To increase my timing advance on my EL I6, I should put the ECU into base timing mode, and then adjust the timing as per normal (lossen dizzy, and rotate).

Once I have advanced the timing enough, do I leave the ECU in base timing mode, or put it back to normal?

Cheers.


Yep, thats correct.

When finished, take it back out of base timing mode.

Cheers

 

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Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2005 12:08 pm 
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hornet wrote:
4.9 EF Futura wrote:
For timing - definately. Putting it into base timing means EEC will leave the timing static, doing it in "normal" mode can have funny effects because EEC is still "looking" at the timing signal whilst you play around with it - under base timing mode, EEC "assumes" the timing is static (at whatever factory base timing is, about 10* BTDC for an I6 i think, 30* BTDC for the V8).

Maybe when you put it into diags to adjust the idle, it's like disconnecting the ISC (which i think is the procedure recommended for adjusting idle) ? Hence the good result you have achieved.


Sorry for thread mining, but I just want to clarify a few things.

To increase my timing advance on my EL I6, I should put the ECU into base timing mode, and then adjust the timing as per normal (lossen dizzy, and rotate).

Once I have advanced the timing enough, do I leave the ECU in base timing mode, or put it back to normal?

Cheers.


Have a search around, its been bought up a few times - but basically, you've got it. Once you enable the diagnostic mode and EEC goes into 'base timing' you will have a limited amount of time to adjust...

I believe timing can also be adjusted with SPOUT disconnected.

 

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Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2005 4:34 am 
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Just a question on adjusting EF base timing.
What range can it be adjusted ?

Unlike a normal dissy, the EF has a keyed lock plate that seems to inhibit the unit from being rotated.

So what is done in such a case ?
Do you grind away the lock key completely or make it thinner to allow some rotation ?

Cheers.
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