Fordmods Logo

Falcon EL gas wtf? 

 

Page 1 of 2 [ 16 posts ] Go to page 1, 2  Next

 
 Post subject: Falcon EL gas wtf?
Posted: Thu Dec 09, 2004 12:33 pm 
Smokin em up
Offline
User avatar

Age: 34

Posts: 258

Joined: 9th Dec 2004

Gallery: 4 images

Ride: EL falcon - Skyline r33

Location: Sydney
NSW, Australia

Hey guys, first off its been awhile since i last posted here and i could not log into my old account so i made a new one.

Like most of us ive come here with a problem and some of you guys know your fords pretty well so i might aswell pitch my problem at you guys and see if i can get some help .

i have a 98 model EL falcon , runs on duel fuel however i never run the petrol i allways use gas , Yesterday i was driving along at about 90/kph and the engine started to cut out when i gave it some gas , it happend more often and then it came to a stop . I got out and then opened the hood and saw that the GAS converter (i think thats what it is) was competely FROZEN , when i say FROZEN i mean it was hard white cold ICE. I looked at the car engine and im saying to myself that the car is running at normal temperature but this part of the car is completely frozen?? anyway i was shocked at what i saw , so i called NRMA road side assistance , the dude came and saw that i had no water in the car , i had NO idea after checking it about 4-5 days earlyer when it was full.

The NRMA guy said " You had no water, so no hot water was not warming up the gas and it froze, not to mention that your engine overheated "

i never knew that hot water warms the gas , and i thought when your engine heats the temperature gauge goes up, My car didnt show it was overheating at all. it was completely normal .

1. Car had no water (somehow lost all its water)
2. Gas thingy froze
3. Car temp was allways at normal level (but engine apparently overheated)

thats all i know atm , i sent my car to my mech but i wanted to know if any of you could piece together what might have happend, and ill compare it to what the mech will say.

Thanks in advanced.

 

_________________

It's set up like a deck of cards, They're sending us to early graves. For all the diamonds, they'll use a pair of clubs to beat the spades.

RATM

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Thu Dec 09, 2004 2:12 pm 
Getting Side Ways
Offline
User avatar

Age: 31

Posts: 11103

Joined: 15th Nov 2004

Ride: AU III XR8 Pursuit 250 ute

Location: Hobart
TAS, Australia

the gas is really really cold when it's compressed into a liquid (which is the form it's kept in in the gas tank). This is because 1 particle of liquid lpg is 200 times smalled than when it is in gas form!

the hot engine water/coolant runs to the converter to keep it warm and stop it from freezing. without the water/coolant keeping the converter warm it'd freeze (as yours did). This is why some people find there lpg is nasty to run when the car is cold.

Your engine may not of overheated (he may of just assumed that) or your gauge may be dodgy. Anyways, make sure you get the cooling system checked aswell - there must be a leak or something there...

 

_________________

Heaps of performance EF/L parts for sale, including supercharged VCT motor!

2002 Ford AU Series III Falcon XR8 Pursuit 250 ute - 5.6L of V8 Windsor!

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Thu Dec 09, 2004 2:18 pm 
Site Admin
Offline
User avatar

Age: 34

Posts: 8831

Joined: 18th Dec 2002

Gallery: 6 images

Ride: AUII V8 LTD

Power: 270 rwkw

Location: Sydney
NSW, Australia

Your engine 'temp' is measured by your Coolant Temperature Sensor. If you have no coolant, how can it give an accurate measure of the temp? :) The temp reading you would be getting would be from the heated thermostat housing and probably some steam and water still circulating around.

twrcx's theory on why it froze isn't quite accurate, and I don't know it well enough to explain it accurately either, but its more to do with the liquid -> vapour conversion and pressure drop causing super cold temperatures, which of course why your engine coolant runs through your LPG converter - to keep it warm :)

I learned the same way as you did a couple of years ago when I bought my first LPG car. Fuzion was in the car with me and i'm like "OMG - the converter is WHITE!" hehe. Its the only way to learn!

 

_________________

WAG363: AUII LTD Supercharged 363 Dart Stroker [Supercharged 363 LTD Build]
WAGGIN: 2012 Volkswagen Passat Wagon - V6 4Motion.

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Thu Dec 09, 2004 2:33 pm 
Smokin em up
Offline
User avatar

Age: 34

Posts: 258

Joined: 9th Dec 2004

Gallery: 4 images

Ride: EL falcon - Skyline r33

Location: Sydney
NSW, Australia

haha yer, but what im worried about now is.....

If i had no water to warm the converter, and the car was NOT overheating, i could have burnt the engine without even knowing!!!

 

_________________

It's set up like a deck of cards, They're sending us to early graves. For all the diamonds, they'll use a pair of clubs to beat the spades.

RATM

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Thu Dec 09, 2004 4:45 pm 
Fordmods Newbie
Offline

Age: 41

Posts: 15

Joined: 14th Nov 2004

Ride: BA

Location: sydney
NSW, Australia

Assuming it's a factory LPG converter, there is a coolant chamber that has coolant running though. It's separated form the rest of the gas chambers by a rubber coated diaphragm. If the diaphagm has a hole in it, coolant can leak through the converter and eventually into the engine.

Most people don't notice this sort of problem until they have to keep topping up coolant but don't see a leak.

Waggin was on track, when the LPG vapourises from Liquid, the change in pressure causes a drop in temp. Like when you spray a heap of aerosol (like deodorant) onto your hand.

It's a fair chance that your converter and stepper motor (the black unit bolted to the converter) are gone. Unbolt the stepper motor and peek into the converter. See any coolant? Previously had red coolant? (!!!)

The engine should be OK - at least with the poor vapourisation you would have had, you would have been getting a way too rich mixture which would keep combustion temps down

ps. I don't have a smelly hand :)

 

_________________

BA Futura with Multipoint Liquid Phase LPG Injection, full sick tissue box

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Thu Dec 09, 2004 5:36 pm 
Getting Side Ways
Offline
User avatar

Age: 31

Posts: 11103

Joined: 15th Nov 2004

Ride: AU III XR8 Pursuit 250 ute

Location: Hobart
TAS, Australia

flukey wrote:
Assuming it's a factory LPG converter, there is a coolant chamber that has coolant running though. It's separated form the rest of the gas chambers by a rubber coated diaphragm. If the diaphagm has a hole in it, coolant can leak through the converter and eventually into the engine.

Most people don't notice this sort of problem until they have to keep topping up coolant but don't see a leak.


I had this problem with my last converter, even though the hole was only small, when coolant went into the engine it caused the car to stall.

 

_________________

Heaps of performance EF/L parts for sale, including supercharged VCT motor!

2002 Ford AU Series III Falcon XR8 Pursuit 250 ute - 5.6L of V8 Windsor!

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Thu Dec 09, 2004 5:57 pm 
Smokin em up
Offline
User avatar

Age: 34

Posts: 258

Joined: 9th Dec 2004

Gallery: 4 images

Ride: EL falcon - Skyline r33

Location: Sydney
NSW, Australia

flukey wrote:
Assuming it's a factory LPG converter, there is a coolant chamber that has coolant running though. It's separated form the rest of the gas chambers by a rubber coated diaphragm. If the diaphagm has a hole in it, coolant can leak through the converter and eventually into the engine.

Most people don't notice this sort of problem until they have to keep topping up coolant but don't see a leak.

Waggin was on track, when the LPG vapourises from Liquid, the change in pressure causes a drop in temp. Like when you spray a heap of aerosol (like deodorant) onto your hand.

It's a fair chance that your converter and stepper motor (the black unit bolted to the converter) are gone. Unbolt the stepper motor and peek into the converter. See any coolant? Previously had red coolant? (!!!)

The engine should be OK - at least with the poor vapourisation you would have had, you would have been getting a way too rich mixture which would keep combustion temps down

ps. I don't have a smelly hand :)


Thanks for your explination , and thanks to the other guys for the input.

ive had so many problems with cars and just when you THINK you have had every problem spaning from gearboxes to fuel , to body damage to suspension and braking , something like this comes and bites you on the a***.. It never sleeps i tell ya. i want friken sharks with friken laser beams attached to their heads....

 

_________________

It's set up like a deck of cards, They're sending us to early graves. For all the diamonds, they'll use a pair of clubs to beat the spades.

RATM

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Thu Dec 09, 2004 6:14 pm 
Getting Side Ways
Offline
User avatar

Age: 54

Posts: 4102

Joined: 18th Nov 2004

Gallery: 10 images

Ride: PX2 Ranger 4x4 XLT Dual CAB

Location: Carrum Downs
VIC, Australia

I not going to add anything more, the other guys have explained your problem well.

Just one point when refilling your car with coolant, your converter is likely to be the highest part of the cooling system, this is where air bubbles can get trapped. you need to ensure that all air is out of the system, some converters have bleeders on them to get air out. If it doesn't you will need to try and get all the air out by running the engine at a fast idle with the radiator cap off until the thermostat is open. You will know the thermostat is open when the coolant in the header tank is hot.

 

_________________

Image
She's meanness put to music and the b**ch is born to run!
Like the sign says, "speed's just a question of money. How fast can you go?"

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2004 3:07 am 
Getting Side Ways
Offline

Age: 36

Posts: 2215

Joined: 5th Nov 2004

Gallery: 17 images

Ride: Oettinger Golf GTI

Location: Sydney
NSW, Australia

quick question, has it happened whilst yoru aircon was on?

and would be advised to install a low level coolant switch and connect it up to the dash (quite easy to do) so least u know when u run out of water.

either its getting blocked or you have a slight slit or split on your hoses, my advice is to take off the hoses each end and feed water through and see if it comes through alright

if problem still keeps happening take it to someone local who does lpg (in SYd, try crescent motors) .. but everyone else explained it pretty well
Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2004 1:52 pm 
Smokin em up
Offline
User avatar

Age: 34

Posts: 258

Joined: 9th Dec 2004

Gallery: 4 images

Ride: EL falcon - Skyline r33

Location: Sydney
NSW, Australia

Ok , the situation has changed.

It seems that i was loosing water from the headgasket. We did a presure test and water was leaking from the headgasket on the manifolds side. however i dont know how it lost that much water that quick. no water means the gas compressor froze. and may have also made the hole in the gasket larger.

So i guess i need to change the headgasket and check that the head is not cracked.

What would be the best thing to do, keep driving it till its completly fuked , or replace it while its still in the shop?

or should i trash the ford and buy something else?

 

_________________

It's set up like a deck of cards, They're sending us to early graves. For all the diamonds, they'll use a pair of clubs to beat the spades.

RATM

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2004 2:03 pm 
Smokin em up
Offline
User avatar

Age: 34

Posts: 258

Joined: 9th Dec 2004

Gallery: 4 images

Ride: EL falcon - Skyline r33

Location: Sydney
NSW, Australia

fuzion wrote:
quick question, has it happened whilst yoru aircon was on?


Aircon was off ,

In order of what happend.

1. Checked water level 4 days before event.
2. Drove car twice after checking water , then left it over night.
3. Started car drove for about 5 min and the first cut outs happend.
4. Car shut off itself about 10 min from starting. ( did not overheat according to the water temp)
5. Open bonnet and find that the gas converter is frozen
6. call NRMA
7. NRMA finds that there is no coolent in the system.
8. Me <----------- WTF???
9. Tow to mech
10. Mech tells me that the headgasket is leaking .

So thats the way s**t happens.

Blardy leaking head gaskets, cant they find some new technology that will abolish headgaskets??????????

 

_________________

It's set up like a deck of cards, They're sending us to early graves. For all the diamonds, they'll use a pair of clubs to beat the spades.

RATM

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2004 2:32 pm 
Getting Side Ways
Offline
User avatar

Age: 54

Posts: 4102

Joined: 18th Nov 2004

Gallery: 10 images

Ride: PX2 Ranger 4x4 XLT Dual CAB

Location: Carrum Downs
VIC, Australia

I'd be fixing it now, not waiting until its "completly fuked" if you continue it will only get worse, causing more damage and ultimately costing you more.

 

_________________

Image
She's meanness put to music and the b**ch is born to run!
Like the sign says, "speed's just a question of money. How fast can you go?"

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2004 2:47 pm 
Smokin em up
Offline
User avatar

Age: 34

Posts: 258

Joined: 9th Dec 2004

Gallery: 4 images

Ride: EL falcon - Skyline r33

Location: Sydney
NSW, Australia

Yeah, I told my mechanic to go through with fixing the problem
Bout 500-600 for the headgasket and if the head is cracked an extra 250 or something like that.

 

_________________

It's set up like a deck of cards, They're sending us to early graves. For all the diamonds, they'll use a pair of clubs to beat the spades.

RATM

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2004 3:03 pm 
Getting Side Ways
Offline
User avatar

Age: 54

Posts: 4102

Joined: 18th Nov 2004

Gallery: 10 images

Ride: PX2 Ranger 4x4 XLT Dual CAB

Location: Carrum Downs
VIC, Australia

thats a good price, I just picked mine up cost me $715. That included pressure test and machining of head, new valve stem seals, genuine gaskets etc and new head bolts.

 

_________________

Image
She's meanness put to music and the b**ch is born to run!
Like the sign says, "speed's just a question of money. How fast can you go?"

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2004 3:12 pm 
Site Admin
Offline
User avatar

Age: 34

Posts: 8831

Joined: 18th Dec 2002

Gallery: 6 images

Ride: AUII V8 LTD

Power: 270 rwkw

Location: Sydney
NSW, Australia

take it down to crescent motors... or if youre looking for a cheap option, i'm sure one of the local sydney members will look after you :) ( I wont name any names, I'll let them offer)

hehe

 

_________________

WAG363: AUII LTD Supercharged 363 Dart Stroker [Supercharged 363 LTD Build]
WAGGIN: 2012 Volkswagen Passat Wagon - V6 4Motion.

Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:
Sort by  
 Page 1 of 2  [ 16 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 11 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

 

 

It is currently Sun Dec 17, 2017 4:17 am All times are UTC + 11 hours

 

 

(c)2014 Total Web Solutions Australia - Australian Web Hosting and Domain Names