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FG xr6 looks like its made cheap! 

 

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 Post subject: Re: FG xr6 looks like its made cheap!
Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 1:05 am 
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JOSE wrote:

Ok then, i want a plastic that conducts heat and electricity very well, what? you cant? plastic is still fairly limited in its properties (two biggest ones there) and there is only so much you can do to improve it.


Lucky manifolds don't need to conduct heat and electricity very well. :wink:

 

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 Post subject: Re: FG xr6 looks like its made cheap!
Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 2:03 am 
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joshmcmillan wrote:
JOSE wrote:

Ok then, i want a plastic that conducts heat and electricity very well, what? you cant? plastic is still fairly limited in its properties (two biggest ones there) and there is only so much you can do to improve it.


Lucky manifolds don't need to conduct heat and electricity very well. :wink:


Actually its better for a cool charge to be made of plastic... no heat absorbtion.
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 Post subject: Re: FG xr6 looks like its made cheap!
Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 10:36 am 
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JOSE wrote:
Ok then, i want a plastic that conducts heat and electricity very well, what? you cant? plastic is still fairly limited in its properties (two biggest ones there) and there is only so much you can do to improve it.


Yep, there are limits, but it constantly surprises me what plastics CAN do. It's often a question of how big your development budget is. Check this out:

http://www.popsci.com/science/article/2 ... -direction

http://www.physorg.com/news/2011-02-pla ... icity.html

 

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 Post subject: Re: FG xr6 looks like its made cheap!
Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 1:20 pm 
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frankieh wrote:
joshmcmillan wrote:
JOSE wrote:

Ok then, i want a plastic that conducts heat and electricity very well, what? you cant? plastic is still fairly limited in its properties (two biggest ones there) and there is only so much you can do to improve it.


Lucky manifolds don't need to conduct heat and electricity very well. :wink:


Actually its better for a cool charge to be made of plastic... no heat absorbtion.


i wasnt talking this application as such, just highlighting how plastic isnt magic and cant be made to do everything (ie it ISNT metal)

 

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 Post subject: Re: FG xr6 looks like its made cheap!
Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 1:23 pm 
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efxr6wagon wrote:
JOSE wrote:
Ok then, i want a plastic that conducts heat and electricity very well, what? you cant? plastic is still fairly limited in its properties (two biggest ones there) and there is only so much you can do to improve it.


Yep, there are limits, but it constantly surprises me what plastics CAN do. It's often a question of how big your development budget is. Check this out:

http://www.popsci.com/science/article/2 ... -direction

http://www.physorg.com/news/2011-02-pla ... icity.html

article 1 - "conducts heat better than half of all pure metals" i bet its the half of the metals that are s**t at conducting heat

article 2 - the plastic doesnt seemt to be conducting s**t, its the METAL added to the plastic that does the work - kinda like how the plasting engine components are GRP "Glass Re-inforced Polymer"

 

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 Post subject: Re: FG xr6 looks like its made cheap!
Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 1:46 pm 
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Name a metal that can insulate against heat and wont conduct electricity. Fairly moot argument because different materials are used for different purposes.

Name a metal, that is not an alloy, that has the properties required for automotive use. (any part) You wont find one. They all require alloying to become anything usable.

The term 'plastic' was being thrown around as a general desription of the part rather than a description of the actual chemical makeup, so arguing that the 'plastic' is not 'plastic' is a bit thin, as metals aint metals either.

 

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 Post subject: Re: FG xr6 looks like its made cheap!
Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 3:29 pm 
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Back in cab driving days saw an EA or EB cab sitting at the depot with its bonnet up, 5 or so drivers standing around the engine bay - one of them either touched or possibly leaned on the overflow tank and that catastrophically exploded - no other word for it. It showered all 5 of them with boiling coolant, 2 of them taken to hospitaL with bad facial hand and arm burns. The car wasn't running but had just been turned off...

Off topic but that reminds me of another cab explosion, guy trying to start his cab at the airport probably 20 cars ahead of me in the line - cranking cranking cranking for what seemed like ages then probably the loudest bang I've ever heard - I was reading with all the windows up, and my ears were ringing. People who were nearer to it were holding their ears in pain. Walked up to see what had happened, most of the intake was gone, huge gas explosion cos of all the cranking and pumping the accelerator I imagine..

 

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 Post subject: Re: FG xr6 looks like its made cheap!
Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 3:35 pm 
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Youve got me stumped on number 1, the closest i got was alumina which is an oxide of aluminium and is not electricly conductive

Gold - used widely to reflect heat (top end supercars) or as a plating to resist corrosion and conduct electricity, the purer the better.

name a plastic that is usefull in mechanical terms that isnt a composite itself? nearly everything i can think of under the bonnet in my car is some sort of GRP

 

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 Post subject: Re: FG xr6 looks like its made cheap!
Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 3:44 pm 
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But the gold has to be attached to something, so it's useless by itself. (similar to the conducting plastic argument). I did think of one after I posted that, copper, as in copper head gasket.

That's the thing, none of them are useful by themselves. That's why we have composites. Combining two or more items to make something greater than the sum of their parts. And when they're not suitable for one task, you use something else.

Only time will tell if Ford spent enough money on the development of, or if they designed, the 'plastic' intake manifold well enough.

 

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 Post subject: Re: FG xr6 looks like its made cheap!
Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 4:13 pm 
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If materials and manufacturing methods and materials didn't improve and develop, we'd still be using chrome bumpers, cast iron blocks and INTAKES and a modern car would probably be 500kg more than it is now.

They are doing things with carbon nanotubes that are so strong that they make steel look like taffy. The future is bright for new building blocks. :-)

Last edited by frankieh on Tue Jul 19, 2011 6:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: FG xr6 looks like its made cheap!
Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 7:14 pm 
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frankieh wrote:
If materials and manufacturing methods and materials didn't improve and develop, we'd still be using chrome bumpers, cast iron blocks and INTAKES and a modern car would probably be 500kg more than it is now.

They are doing things with carbon nanotubes that are so strong that they make steel look like taffy. The future is bright for new building blocks. :-)


Funny you say that.
New R35 GTR = 1,740kg
Godzilla R32 GTR = 1,430kg

FG Falcon = 1,704kg
XF Falcon = 1,333kg

Funny huh...

 

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 Post subject: Re: FG xr6 looks like its made cheap!
Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 8:25 pm 
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the sam wrote:
frankieh wrote:
If materials and manufacturing methods and materials didn't improve and develop, we'd still be using chrome bumpers, cast iron blocks and INTAKES and a modern car would probably be 500kg more than it is now.

They are doing things with carbon nanotubes that are so strong that they make steel look like taffy. The future is bright for new building blocks. :-)


Funny you say that.
New R35 GTR = 1,740kg
Godzilla R32 GTR = 1,430kg

FG Falcon = 1,704kg
XF Falcon = 1,333kg

Funny huh...


You beat me to it - the one that made me go WTF a few years ago was WRX's weighed the same as a V8 HJ Kingswood - where in hell is the progress there?? OK, OK, so you get airbags and computers and electric bottom warmers and all the other crap that is sooo necessary in a new car these days, but do we really need all that stuff? My XB doesn't have any of that rubbish and it still functions as a motor vehicle - I'm sure new car owners will tell me what a deathtrap I'm driving but you know what? It hasn't killed me yet....

 

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 Post subject: Re: FG xr6 looks like its made cheap!
Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 12:04 am 
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Plastic in the engine bay is stupid. Cost me a cracked head in a BMW once as the plastic thermostat cover hose bit just cracked off one hot summers day without warning. THe plastic was just soft in that region.

Yet the brass radiatior in my EA never caused me any problems in 15 years. Yet I have replaced the radiator in a VN commode 3 or 4 times over the same period.

Heat and plastic dont mix

 

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 Post subject: Re: FG xr6 looks like its made cheap!
Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 2:25 pm 
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Ash wrote:
I remember reading into thermo fans, this was aimed at the after market types for older/muscle cars, the result was one larger one drew more air then two smaller ones. Can't remember where I read it, possibly on a US site, not sure if anyone else has seen that?



I've seen that in a number of articles - I believe if you look at www.fordmuscle.com there are a number of articles about fitting thermo's , I'm sure they discussed it there...

 

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 Post subject: Re: FG xr6 looks like its made cheap!
Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 2:59 pm 
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tearlejc wrote:
the sam wrote:
frankieh wrote:
If materials and manufacturing methods and materials didn't improve and develop, we'd still be using chrome bumpers, cast iron blocks and INTAKES and a modern car would probably be 500kg more than it is now.

They are doing things with carbon nanotubes that are so strong that they make steel look like taffy. The future is bright for new building blocks. :-)


Funny you say that.
New R35 GTR = 1,740kg
Godzilla R32 GTR = 1,430kg

FG Falcon = 1,704kg
XF Falcon = 1,333kg

Funny huh...


You beat me to it - the one that made me go WTF a few years ago was WRX's weighed the same as a V8 HJ Kingswood - where in hell is the progress there?? OK, OK, so you get airbags and computers and electric bottom warmers and all the other crap that is sooo necessary in a new car these days, but do we really need all that stuff? My XB doesn't have any of that rubbish and it still functions as a motor vehicle - I'm sure new car owners will tell me what a deathtrap I'm driving but you know what? It hasn't killed me yet....


Yes new cars are much heavier than before, but as you mention...it's all the extras that make the car heavier. 8 airbags, weighing in approximately 2kg each, electric seats, seat warmers, climate control, dual climate control, bigger brakes, ABS, etc...they do add up. Make the XB with equivalent plastic types and I am sure the car will weigh a couple of hundred kilos lighter...or make new cars without the use of advanced plastic material and increase the weight by hundreds.

If you removed all the non-essentials of todays cars and bring it down to the level of the 70s, I'm pretty sure it will be much lighter.

 

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