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Got a Real "Hum Dinger" this time. 

 

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 Post subject: Re: Got a Real "Hum Dinger" this time.
Posted: Fri May 06, 2016 8:29 pm 
Oompa Loompa
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Age: 33

Posts: 32

Joined: 24th Jul 2015

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Ride: Ford XG Ute

Location: Dubbo
NSW, Australia

Thanks for the Input Fella's,
Here's what I know for a fact :

1. I'm getting good clean blue spark at both the plus ( replaced them, got spark with both ) Ran a plug off the lead from the coil, and one from #1 and #4 cylinders.

2. I DO get fuel to rail, unsure if it's the 32psi required to properly initiate a good spray into the runner to be enough to run the engine. I do get "Pops" really lightly, like she's igniting fuel, but not enough to push the Pistons. Also the Extractors get warm, as if there's some heat there.

3. Injectors all click, put an old injector into my plug directly off the rail, and a piece of hose with some fuel behind it, she was spitting fuel. So I'll assume they're firing as well.

4. Double Checked all wiring removed, checked for any cracks and any missing or loose connections, everything seems to be fine there.

5. Checked I had fuel coming directly from the tank, took off hoses from the tank and ran a test hose straight to a bottle to verify I had fuel going. Roughly .5 liters for 10 seconds of turning over, plus the prime.

6. Checked I had fuel at the rail, same amount as from the tank with the same test, popped off the return line from the regulator, no leak by at all.

7. picked up new filter today, had to work late, gonna swap in tomorrow and see if that's plugging up my lines. besides, Batteries almost dead anyway. Gotta charge it.

here's what I don't know :

1. Why she won't kick over.

2. Why my wife can't make up her mind on what she wants for evening tea.

Thanks Guys, I really Appreciate the help. Good to have a forum like this, glad I joined.

-Dan

 

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 Post subject: Re: Got a Real "Hum Dinger" this time.
Posted: Fri May 06, 2016 8:49 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Posts: 971

Joined: 15th Nov 2004

Ride: el wagon

Location: melbourne
VIC, Australia

O,k,: did you move the distributor when you replaced the manifold?

Quote:
.Dizzys almost brand new ( 4 months old )


Did you swap over the gear from the old one????????????????

If you didn't I would recommend that you pull the dist., and check the gear, as the Chinese gears are basically cheese.

Quote:
"pop" lightly like she's trying to fire but it's just not enough..


Sounds like it's retarded. Try starting it and rotating the dist slightly (clockwise) as you turn it over, to advance it.
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 Post subject: Re: Got a Real "Hum Dinger" this time.
Posted: Fri May 06, 2016 11:16 pm 
Oompa Loompa
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Age: 33

Posts: 32

Joined: 24th Jul 2015

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Ride: Ford XG Ute

Location: Dubbo
NSW, Australia

Mate, when I got the new Dizzy, I got all new gear with it, new cap, rotor, coil, TFI Mod, leads the whole setup, I didn't change the gear itself from the old to the new Dizzy, no.. I had the coil on the side of the block, and apparently it had split and was grounding out and just botched everything. So I had to replace everything, and remote mount the coil onto the Firewall to keep it safe from happening again. I got it mounted up and out of the way, above the rocker cover in the middle of the engine bay.

She's been fine ever since, haven't touched the timing or anything, had to pull leads to get the Log manifold off, but I kept them in order. I pulled the manifold off again to check wiring the first time she wouldn't start up and that time checked the cap and rotor....no issues, barely any wear, still looked relatively new...I'd say less than 5k kms on it.

I've heard what You're talking about with the gears on the Dizzy going bad and getting chewed up, but she's sparking on time when I put a light on it and cranked.

From my experience, If the Dizzy was bad I wouldn't get anything at all...no spark and no injector click. If the fuel Filter makes no change, I guess that'll be my next thing to start thinking about.

 

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Last edited by dp_stoner on Fri May 06, 2016 11:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Got a Real "Hum Dinger" this time.
Posted: Fri May 06, 2016 11:19 pm 
Oompa Loompa
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Age: 33

Posts: 32

Joined: 24th Jul 2015

Gallery: 3 images

Ride: Ford XG Ute

Location: Dubbo
NSW, Australia

I marked the timing spot on the dizzy and block and moved Ret-Adv both ways, and it made no difference...made the same sounds....still had warm extractors....still light popping ....

 

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 Post subject: Re: Got a Real "Hum Dinger" this time.
Posted: Sat May 07, 2016 11:09 am 
Getting Side Ways
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Posts: 971

Joined: 15th Nov 2004

Ride: el wagon

Location: melbourne
VIC, Australia

In my (limited) experiences, motors need 3 things to work: spark (electricity), fuel + air, and compression (mechanical)

If any of these are missing, it doesn't work.

So, you have spark, assuming in the right place/time

and you have fuel and air, assuming at the correct time

so: it must be something mechanical.

Could it be something in the new g/box that isn't telling the ECU to work??

I believe there is a vacuum fitting at the rear of the log manifold, that isn't broken by any chance? The engine should run tho' if it was, albeit very badly

Pity it's not a manual, then you could try tow starting

Try this for a really good manual download:

http://www.allcarmanuals.com/factory-se ... ne-EL.html
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 Post subject: Re: Got a Real "Hum Dinger" this time.
Posted: Sat May 07, 2016 1:17 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Joined: 14th Sep 2011

Ride: BF II Gas Ute

Location: Canberra
ACT, Australia

Hello,

An engine will run with a spray bottle of Petrol sprayed into the intake. Even if the timing looks right, it may be out because the engine is on the wrong stroke. Have a look at the valves and the distributor. Make sure the dizzy is not out 180 degrees. Easy thing to do, we have all been caught by this one. If the leads are numbered, swap them to see. 1 and 6 and so on.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Got a Real "Hum Dinger" this time.
Posted: Sat May 07, 2016 7:03 pm 
Oompa Loompa
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Age: 33

Posts: 32

Joined: 24th Jul 2015

Gallery: 3 images

Ride: Ford XG Ute

Location: Dubbo
NSW, Australia

I'm gonna pull the Dizzy in a few minutes, Sadly the filter and blowing out the fuel lines, and replacing the filter, did nothing.
Got on offer on an EL complete engine with around 200,000kms with wiring harness and everything else I need to drop it in an run it. Might take it up.

Popped the plugs out to have a look, they're wet. Not fouled like a 2stroke, just slightly wet, and shining a light down through the hole it's wet there too.

The Starter seems to be getting weaker, I charged the battery most of the day ( I also got a Start-Pack to help ) But I reckon if she's stuffed I'm gonna toss in the Towel on this engine and Swap in an EL.

Well, Off I go to take the Dizzy off!,
Really Appreciate the Input and help guys.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Got a Real "Hum Dinger" this time.
Posted: Sat May 07, 2016 7:23 pm 
Oompa Loompa
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Age: 33

Posts: 32

Joined: 24th Jul 2015

Gallery: 3 images

Ride: Ford XG Ute

Location: Dubbo
NSW, Australia

Pulled Dizzy off, Gear looks brand new....
gonna reset the timing from scratch and button it all up.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Got a Real "Hum Dinger" this time.
Posted: Sat May 07, 2016 7:35 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Ride: '91 EB Wagoon

Location: Geeelong
VIC, Australia

dp_stoner wrote:
Pulled Dizzy off, Gear looks brand new....
gonna reset the timing from scratch and button it all up.



did you check the Aux shaft whilst dizzy was out??
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 Post subject: Re: Got a Real "Hum Dinger" this time.
Posted: Sat May 07, 2016 7:38 pm 
Oompa Loompa
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Age: 33

Posts: 32

Joined: 24th Jul 2015

Gallery: 3 images

Ride: Ford XG Ute

Location: Dubbo
NSW, Australia

Shined a Light down, everything looks Good mate....Good clean oil, all the shafts have normal wear for a car with 350,000+kms on the engine. It's all still tight and looks fine....I can't see anything that says " Well, that's your problem right there!"

 

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 Post subject: Re: Got a Real "Hum Dinger" this time.
Posted: Sat May 07, 2016 7:51 pm 
Oompa Loompa
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Age: 33

Posts: 32

Joined: 24th Jul 2015

Gallery: 3 images

Ride: Ford XG Ute

Location: Dubbo
NSW, Australia

Creeture, Mate!, Thanks for that!.

Been looking for a Shop Manual for this thing since I got it...

I think the day the guys wrote up the Hanes manual they were high.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Got a Real "Hum Dinger" this time.
Posted: Sat May 07, 2016 8:47 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Posts: 971

Joined: 15th Nov 2004

Ride: el wagon

Location: melbourne
VIC, Australia

Quote:
gonna reset the timing from scratch and button it all up


Just make sure you are on the compression stroke. Hold you finger over #1 plughole (with plug removed :lol: ) and you can feel the compression..........

Also for piece of mind, I would change the dist. gear.............
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 Post subject: Re: Got a Real "Hum Dinger" this time.
Posted: Sat May 07, 2016 11:04 pm 
Oompa Loompa
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Age: 33

Posts: 32

Joined: 24th Jul 2015

Gallery: 3 images

Ride: Ford XG Ute

Location: Dubbo
NSW, Australia

Very Well, Dizzy Gear changed, Spent some time going over the TFI Module with my ohmmeter, and found nothing wrong. Followed directions for testing 200 ohms here, 7000 there and so on. I wasn't convinced it was an Ignition/timing issue, and I'm pretty sure now it's not.

Creeture, kinda hard to hold my finger over the hole and turn the engine at the same time...I Had to go by timing marks and watching the valves, got it on the compression stroke now. Dizzy doesn't seem to wanna go all the way in....feels like it's sticking out about 5-10mm more than it should. Oil Pump shaft looks good as the oil drained away enough to see it better, the drive gear off of the timing chain looks fine too....Surprisingly good actually considering the Km's on it.

I keep retracing my steps throughout the process, from pulling it into the driveway to now....Can't find a reason she won't go...Ran fine when I pulled up, no misses, not hesitation, no issues at all. Never touched the Dizzy, or timing, only the leads.

So far replaced plugs, leads, fuel pump, fuel filter,Fuel Pump Relay, engine mount, manifold gasket, and about 1ltr of coolant.

On a side note, the Plugs do have some sooty residue on them, tried to post a pic but the size it too large to post in the forum. I reckon that comes from the "popping" from it trying to kick over with a small bit of fuel in the Cylinders.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Got a Real "Hum Dinger" this time.
Posted: Sun May 08, 2016 7:33 am 
Stock as a Rock
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Ride: R34 GTR

Location: Melbourne
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If you're gonna blow out the fuel lines... you might as well also remove the fuel rail and injectors and blow them all out too. Do whats already been suggested; introduce some LPG from a gas bottle or torch, into the intake... close to throttle body. If she fires off... well then you know its definitely a fuel delivery problem and nothing else.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Got a Real "Hum Dinger" this time.
Posted: Sun May 08, 2016 1:42 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Posts: 971

Joined: 15th Nov 2004

Ride: el wagon

Location: melbourne
VIC, Australia

Quote:
Dizzy doesn't seem to wanna go all the way in....feels like it's sticking out about 5-10mm more than it should


Probably not sitting on the oil pump shaft properly, turn engine a bit and it should drop in, and then turn back to TDC

Quote:
the Plugs do have some sooty residue on them


If the plugs have "carboned up" usually means running too rich, or not firing properly:

Carbon fouled – Dried, soft black, sooty coating. There are a number of possible causes for this condition: Spark-plug heat range is too cold; extensive low-speed/short-distance driving; weak ignition system; rich fuel mixture; clogged fuel injectors; vacuum leaks; carbon canister/purge valve problems. Carbureted engines with carbon-fouled plugs may be improperly adjusted or have an improperly adjusted choke.

http://www.turbododge.com/forums/f4/f62 ... guide.html


Quote:
Do whats already been suggested; introduce some LPG from a gas bottle or torch, into the intake..


Personally, I would steer clear of LPG, get it wrong.............
Use starter gas a a can. But you have already tried that.........

Quote:
Never touched the Dizzy, or timing, only the leads.


Absolutely sure you have them in the right holes?? I have got them wrong in the past....
(Dist runs clockwise: 1-5-3-6-2-4)
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