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Got a Real "Hum Dinger" this time. 

 

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 Post subject: Got a Real "Hum Dinger" this time.
Posted: Tue May 03, 2016 7:22 pm 
Oompa Loompa
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Age: 33

Posts: 32

Joined: 24th Jul 2015

Gallery: 3 images

Ride: Ford XG Ute

Location: Dubbo
NSW, Australia

Alright Mates,
I got a real fun one here.
1994 XG falcon 4.0 Auto, stock engine, running extractors and a set of aftermarket gauges, thats all the mods done.

Had to Swap the Auto Box for an EL Box a few weeks ago and other than replacing lines, went almost flawlessly....Engine mounts got botched while the install went on and had to swap them. Got the Driver side no problem, but had to wait a week to Finish the Passenger side ( turned out to be fine, after pulling off the log manifold, which is a pain in the a** ).

After Reinstalling the Log and buttoning her all up, swapped in a new fuel pump ( old one got a tad noisy, time to swap it )...

Now She wont start, She cranks, got spark at the coil, spark at the plugs, got fuel pressure at the rail, she cranks over and wants to go...checked timing, spot on. checked fuses ( ctrl lamp, wiper ) checked Relays ( green one that runs fuel pump ) everything's got proper voltage. Still no bang, shot some Aerostart into the log, lost all the hair on my arm. Stereo comes on, Inside lamp comes on ( thought Smartlock was the culprit, seems unlikely )....At my witts end, any advice that might be helpful would be appreciated.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Got a Real "Hum Dinger" this time.
Posted: Tue May 03, 2016 7:28 pm 
Oompa Loompa
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Age: 33

Posts: 32

Joined: 24th Jul 2015

Gallery: 3 images

Ride: Ford XG Ute

Location: Dubbo
NSW, Australia

Had a few Local Mates come around who know their way around the falcons as well, and we're all stumped right now. All the normal suggestions seem to be doing nothing....Dizzys almost brand new ( 4 months old ) Coil is the same. She was running fine before I dropped the log and swapped the mounts, gone back through the wires to make sure I didn't miss any plugs, vacuum lines are hooked up...Sparks are nice and blue, I reckon it's a fuel issue, No "Clicky" noise from the Injectors...Swapped a set between the Xg and an EL manifold I had sitting in the Shed ( Same Model and part #'s ) still no fire up.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Got a Real "Hum Dinger" this time.
Posted: Tue May 03, 2016 11:18 pm 
Technical Contributor
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Joined: 13th Jul 2013

Location: Campbelltown
NSW, Australia

do you have ignition power at the injectors
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 Post subject: Re: Got a Real "Hum Dinger" this time.
Posted: Wed May 04, 2016 2:37 am 
Stock as a Rock
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Age: 31

Posts: 167

Joined: 13th Aug 2005

Ride: R34 GTR

Location: Melbourne
VIC, Australia

Are you positive the injectors are firing?. Check all your wiring... you may have damaged something in the electrical system when doing the swap. Damaged wire(s) or loose connection maybe?

 

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 Post subject: Re: Got a Real "Hum Dinger" this time.
Posted: Wed May 04, 2016 6:32 pm 
Stock as a Rock
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Age: 34

Posts: 124

Joined: 27th Apr 2011

Gallery: 8 images

Ride: ea falcon

Location: tanilba bay
NSW, Australia

Fuel lines back to front?

 

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EA falcon(S-Pac) AU engine and injector's, EL BBM conversion,K&N pod,EL ECU,T5 5speed,EL Streering rack, EL Brake system, Extractor's 2 1/2in high flow cat, through 2 1/2in mandrel bent pipe with Lukey Performance muffler

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 Post subject: Re: Got a Real "Hum Dinger" this time.
Posted: Thu May 05, 2016 12:21 am 
Getting Side Ways
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Ride: 66 Coupe

Location: Perth
WA, Australia

dp_stoner wrote:
Alright Mates,
swapped in a new fuel pump ( old one got a tad noisy, time to swap it )...


check for fuel pressure - it could be something to do with the pump
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 Post subject: Re: Got a Real "Hum Dinger" this time.
Posted: Thu May 05, 2016 5:56 pm 
Oompa Loompa
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Age: 33

Posts: 32

Joined: 24th Jul 2015

Gallery: 3 images

Ride: Ford XG Ute

Location: Dubbo
NSW, Australia

Checked the lines into the Rail, and got pressure going into HP opening ( the one without the Reg ) and also swapped a Reg out with one from a Wrecker. I don't have a gauge, but she's sending fuel, any way to gauge proper pressure without a gauge?...

Injectors are clicking, but since they're pressed into the rail I can't tell what else is going on, checked all my plugs and double checked the harness going alongside the block that runs the injectors and all the other sensors and so on, harness looks good. Can't spot any cracks or bad wires....

I got her to the point where she's "pop" lightly like she's trying to fire but it's just not enough...the extractors are warm after a couple tries as if she's maybe running off of Injector Leak-By...

She was running fine the day I started the engine mount swap. Still got spark, Swapped Fuel Pump Relays just to see if it had some sort of a drop for engine running voltage ( had an American car that would start @ 13.8v and then drop to 12.0v while running )

Still no luck....Gonna pop off the Line sending into the rail and see what she's flowing, the pumps literally a day old. Full tank of 95 octane Filled last week. I'm dying here, Love this car, first time something Popped up I can't seem to tackle though....I guess it's the thing that keeps us all going on these old girls....trying to decipher these mind boggling issues.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Got a Real "Hum Dinger" this time.
Posted: Thu May 05, 2016 6:16 pm 
Oompa Loompa
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Age: 33

Posts: 32

Joined: 24th Jul 2015

Gallery: 3 images

Ride: Ford XG Ute

Location: Dubbo
NSW, Australia

Belay that last post, just popped off the HP fuel line and put the end in a can...no way theres enough fuel to get her started...she had pressure enough to spray out of the gap between the hose and the rail when I loosened the line, giving the impression of pressure, but after priming and cranking for 10 secs..less than 1lt came out...I suppose she should be flowing more...

 

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 Post subject: Re: Got a Real "Hum Dinger" this time.
Posted: Thu May 05, 2016 6:28 pm 
Oompa Loompa
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Age: 33

Posts: 32

Joined: 24th Jul 2015

Gallery: 3 images

Ride: Ford XG Ute

Location: Dubbo
NSW, Australia

Hooked up Multimeter...
Initial prime 10.80v...constant cranking 8.80v

 

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 Post subject: Re: Got a Real "Hum Dinger" this time.
Posted: Thu May 05, 2016 7:56 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Joined: 15th Nov 2004

Ride: el wagon

Location: melbourne
VIC, Australia

Quote:
swapped in a new fuel pump


Fuel delivery for EL : 240 cc in 10 seconds @ 275 kpa

Quote:
Initial prime 10.80v...constant cranking 8.80v


Fuel pump resistance at connector (EL) 10 ohms

What about your filter, maybe when you put in the new pump you disturbed some gunk?

What brand pump ? The cheap brands aren't worth buying. Goss pumps seem to last the longest...

Make a Noid light to check injector pulse:

Make a DIY Noid-Light from a 194 bulb and solder a couple longer legs to the terminals. A medium-gauge paperclip is about right, stiff enough to use as a probe, but small enough to easily slide into a connector without ruining it. Use electrical tape or heat-shrink tubing to insulate the leads, leaving 15mm exposed to make the connection

(A 194 globe is the "wedge" type globe)
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 Post subject: Re: Got a Real "Hum Dinger" this time.
Posted: Thu May 05, 2016 8:59 pm 
Oompa Loompa
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Age: 33

Posts: 32

Joined: 24th Jul 2015

Gallery: 3 images

Ride: Ford XG Ute

Location: Dubbo
NSW, Australia

Yeah, I swapped the filter for a new one last oil change. I'll grab a new one tomorrow ( nothing stays open past 5 O'clock out here ) . The pump Brand is "Pumpmaster" from Autobarn. I'll put the new filter in tomorrow and give'er a go.. I'll try and grab the bulb for a test light while I'm out tomorrow. Thanks for the help, I'm sure we'll get'er up and firing hopefully by the weekend.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Got a Real "Hum Dinger" this time.
Posted: Thu May 05, 2016 10:50 pm 
Getting Side Ways
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Posts: 973

Joined: 15th Nov 2004

Ride: el wagon

Location: melbourne
VIC, Australia

Just a thought, I had a similar problem that turned out to be the ignition module. But my spark would vanish after the first try to start. But you got spark all the time?

Plug leads in the correct order (1-5-3-6-2-4)?
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 Post subject: Re: Got a Real "Hum Dinger" this time.
Posted: Thu May 05, 2016 11:38 pm 
Stock as a Rock
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Joined: 4th Feb 2016

Location: australia
VIC, Australia

Do this simple test, get a couple of meters of heator hose and connect it on to a propane bottle and let a small amount flow into the throttle plate, crank it over and see if it starts. If it starts keep it running for a few seconds then that tells you it is a fuel problem. If you have not touched anything in wiring, dizzy, or anything else pull the computer out of the passenger side kick panel, remove the plastic cover off the top and reconnect the little earth strap. looking into the ecu have the yellow wire pin no 1 to your right, the top row right to left 1 to 20 next row from left to right 21 to 40, now on the bottom row right to left count seven pins to your left that will be pin 47, throttle position switch. Hook up a digital multimeter put the earth clip to ground and the positive into pin 47, turn the key on and you should see around .7 of a volt, if there is more than 3 volts the ecu will switch the injectors on but not enough to start the engine, it is clear flood mode, and without a duty cycle meter or a scope to check pulse width you will never know there is not enough fuel being injected.
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 Post subject: Re: Got a Real "Hum Dinger" this time.
Posted: Thu May 05, 2016 11:49 pm 
Stock as a Rock
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Age: 31

Posts: 167

Joined: 13th Aug 2005

Ride: R34 GTR

Location: Melbourne
VIC, Australia

I'd put my money down to 2 possible scenario's. Either you damaged some wiring or electrical component when moving the engine/box around.... or.... you really messed something up when installing the fuel pump - didn't install it properly or got dirt/debris into the pump/fuel system.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Got a Real "Hum Dinger" this time.
Posted: Fri May 06, 2016 8:06 am 
Oompa Loompa
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Joined: 20th Apr 2013

Ride: 2006 BF RTV

Location: Out the back
VIC, Australia

when you checked the spark, did you pull a plug or did you use one from off the bench?

I've had it happen previously that a car that had starting issues actually saturated the ceramic insulator on the plug turning it into a conductor, and hence no spark..... nfi how long I chased that one before trying fresh plugs and it fired up like nothing had ever been wrong
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