Fordmods Logo

Ignition Timing. I am very confused. 

 

Page 1 of 1 [ 14 posts ] 

 
 Post subject: Ignition Timing. I am very confused.
Posted: Thu May 03, 2007 10:24 pm 
Getting Side Ways
Offline
User avatar

Age: 30

Posts: 501

Joined: 25th Apr 2006

Ride: ED GLi Classic

Location: Ballarat
VIC, Australia

I have recently been reading about being able to change ignition timing in distributor setups, and I am very, very confused.

I have read that you can gain power from adjusting it, lots of different things.

What I want to know, is what exactly is involved, which parts I have to play around with and what they look like, and what I have to gain from it.

Pictures would be awesome as well.

Thanks guys!

 

_________________

RIP Chelsea
96 EF2 Gli - T5 / Exedy / Wade 977b / P+P / JMM Extractors, 2.5" / Port matched BBM / and more
bmICE

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Thu May 03, 2007 10:31 pm 
Getting Side Ways
Offline
User avatar

Age: 40

Posts: 1780

Joined: 31st Jan 2005

Gallery: 10 images

Ride: 07 BF mk2 E-gas wagon + eb 5.0

Power: 174 rwkw

Location: Adelaide
SA, Australia

if you don't know what you are doing then its best to not touch. the dizzy can be moved to advance and retard the timing. it is possible to advance the timing a touch to gain a small increase in power but this also necessitates running higher octane fuel. this is not always the case and the car really needs to be tuned while on a dyno so you can see exactly whats going on.

 

_________________

eb v8: low loud and fast. just how a v8 should be. i guess the big question is, is it fast enough...

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Thu May 03, 2007 10:46 pm 
Fordmods Addict
Offline
User avatar

Age: 31

Posts: 7958

Joined: 1st Jun 2005

Gallery: 13 images

Ride: Falcon

Power: 237 rwkw

Location: Melbourne
VIC, Australia

The stock dizzy position on an E-Series 4L is 10degrees advanced.

The computer controls the spark completely, but its always referenced off that base figure of 10degrees.
So total advance may be be +20 (from the starting 10 degrees).
So if you advance the dizzy to say 14degrees, total advance will still be +20, but because the base figure is higher, there will be more advance (34degrees)

So it affects the spark advance/retard over the entire rev range, a crude way of doing it, but is very effective, especially on EB-EDs running a cam and intake/exhaust mods.

Doesn't seem to work AS well on ELs, probably because they ahve more aggressive spark maps from factory, add too much more and the knock sensor starts pulling out timing.

To do it, you'll need something to earth out the diagnostic mode pin in the port under your fuses (next to your right knee in the car), to put the ECU into diargnostic mode, a 13mm socket, long extension, a ratchet, and a timing light.
There is a thread in the 6 cylinder section sticky showing the complete process.

 

_________________

ED XR8 Sprint - S-Trim, V500, 249rwkw
BF MKII F6 Tornado - 237rwkw

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Thu May 03, 2007 11:33 pm 
Getting Side Ways
Offline
User avatar

Age: 30

Posts: 501

Joined: 25th Apr 2006

Ride: ED GLi Classic

Location: Ballarat
VIC, Australia

Steady ED wrote:
The stock dizzy position on an E-Series 4L is 10degrees advanced.

The computer controls the spark completely, but its always referenced off that base figure of 10degrees.
So total advance may be be +20 (from the starting 10 degrees).
So if you advance the dizzy to say 14degrees, total advance will still be +20, but because the base figure is higher, there will be more advance (34degrees)

So it affects the spark advance/retard over the entire rev range, a crude way of doing it, but is very effective, especially on EB-EDs running a cam and intake/exhaust mods.

Doesn't seem to work AS well on ELs, probably because they ahve more aggressive spark maps from factory, add too much more and the knock sensor starts pulling out timing.

To do it, you'll need something to earth out the diagnostic mode pin in the port under your fuses (next to your right knee in the car), to put the ECU into diargnostic mode, a 13mm socket, long extension, a ratchet, and a timing light.
There is a thread in the 6 cylinder section sticky showing the complete process.


I understand how to put the car into diagnostic mode, but not sure how to hook up the timing light.

So, I would physically be turning the distributor around slighty to change the degree value to advance / retard the timing?

 

_________________

RIP Chelsea
96 EF2 Gli - T5 / Exedy / Wade 977b / P+P / JMM Extractors, 2.5" / Port matched BBM / and more
bmICE

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Thu May 03, 2007 11:43 pm 
Fordmods Addict
Offline
User avatar

Age: 31

Posts: 7958

Joined: 1st Jun 2005

Gallery: 13 images

Ride: Falcon

Power: 237 rwkw

Location: Melbourne
VIC, Australia

timing light is easy, power clips on the battery, trigger thing on number 1 spark plug lead.
Yep, physically turning the distributor.

Don't go too much at a time.
You won't get a massive "OMG" difference.

I run about 14degrees base on mine.

 

_________________

ED XR8 Sprint - S-Trim, V500, 249rwkw
BF MKII F6 Tornado - 237rwkw

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Thu May 03, 2007 11:44 pm 
Oompa Loompa
Offline

Age: 35

Posts: 43

Joined: 1st Jan 2005

Ride: BA Fairmont

Location: Riverland
SA, Australia

You should grab someone who know to show you whats going on here. Incorrect timing can seriously damage your motor.

But anyway, thats basically the idea. Loosen off the bolt spin the dizzy around with the engine in diag mode until its 10 degrees advanced.

with the timing light, just hook it up to your battery and put the clamp on lead No1 (there should be an arrow telling you what direction it goes) then press the button and shine the light on the timing marks.
Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Thu May 03, 2007 11:55 pm 
Getting Side Ways
Offline
User avatar

Age: 30

Posts: 501

Joined: 25th Apr 2006

Ride: ED GLi Classic

Location: Ballarat
VIC, Australia

Sorry, very new to this.

So, the timing light gets connected to the #1 spark plug lead, which is also connected to the spark plug, and when the button on the timing light is pushed, the light should come on at the same time the notch in the crankshaft pulley lines up with the TDC mark? Is this right? Or am I way off?

Reason I am asking all this is I had to pull my distributor out to renew the TFI module, and I just wanna make sure it's all cool when I put it back in tomorrow.

 

_________________

RIP Chelsea
96 EF2 Gli - T5 / Exedy / Wade 977b / P+P / JMM Extractors, 2.5" / Port matched BBM / and more
bmICE

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Thu May 03, 2007 11:58 pm 
Fordmods Addict
Offline
User avatar

Age: 31

Posts: 7958

Joined: 1st Jun 2005

Gallery: 13 images

Ride: Falcon

Power: 237 rwkw

Location: Melbourne
VIC, Australia

The timing light will light up when it sparks, so illuminating the mark on the balancer.
Should be 10degrees past TDC, at the "IGN" mark.

The timing light just has like a clamp thing, that goes over the spark plug lead, don't have to take off the lead or anything.

 

_________________

ED XR8 Sprint - S-Trim, V500, 249rwkw
BF MKII F6 Tornado - 237rwkw

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Thu May 03, 2007 11:59 pm 
Oompa Loompa
Offline

Age: 35

Posts: 43

Joined: 1st Jan 2005

Ride: BA Fairmont

Location: Riverland
SA, Australia

yeah basically, the light will flash. on every flash you will see the timing marks.

You want it to be 10 degrees advanced from tdc
Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Fri May 04, 2007 12:18 am 
Getting Side Ways
Offline
User avatar

Posts: 887

Joined: 8th Aug 2006

Ride: Falcon

Location: Central Highlands
QLD, Australia

Steady ED wrote:
The stock dizzy position on an E-Series 4L is 10degrees advanced.

The computer controls the spark completely, but its always referenced off that base figure of 10degrees.
So total advance may be be +20 (from the starting 10 degrees).
So if you advance the dizzy to say 14degrees, total advance will still be +20, but because the base figure is higher, there will be more advance (34degrees)

So it affects the spark advance/retard over the entire rev range, a crude way of doing it, but is very effective, especially on EB-EDs running a cam and intake/exhaust mods.

Doesn't seem to work AS well on ELs, probably because they ahve more aggressive spark maps from factory, add too much more and the knock sensor starts pulling out timing.

To do it, you'll need something to earth out the diagnostic mode pin in the port under your fuses (next to your right knee in the car), to put the ECU into diargnostic mode, a 13mm socket, long extension, a ratchet, and a timing light.
There is a thread in the 6 cylinder section sticky showing the complete process.


Totally agree with what you said about the EL's. I have played around with the timing on my Old EB falcon and now my EL fairmont. The EB could be advanced a fair bit and I noticed pretty good results where as the EL i could only advance a little bit and I did notice a good difference but no where near the change compared with the old EB.


cheers..

 

_________________

97 EL Fairmont 4l OHC .Silver.
Exhaust: Pacemaker's, 2.5" exhaust and Hiflow cat
Intake: FRAM AIRHOG , EL GT snorkel
XR6 300kpa fuel reg Stg 2 Auto Shift Kit.6DJA ECU
PM in Qld looking too buy Toyota 4*4 SR5 Dualcab Hilux 91-97 with 2.8l diesel engine/5spd manual

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Fri May 04, 2007 12:27 am 
Site Admin
Offline
User avatar

Age: 34

Posts: 8831

Joined: 18th Dec 2002

Gallery: 6 images

Ride: AUII V8 LTD

Power: 270 rwkw

Location: Sydney
NSW, Australia

Possibly because the EB didn't have a knock sensor...

 

_________________

WAG363: AUII LTD Supercharged 363 Dart Stroker [Supercharged 363 LTD Build]
WAGGIN: 2012 Volkswagen Passat Wagon - V6 4Motion.

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Fri May 04, 2007 3:23 am 
Getting Side Ways
Offline
User avatar

Age: 30

Posts: 501

Joined: 25th Apr 2006

Ride: ED GLi Classic

Location: Ballarat
VIC, Australia

Okay, I understand now. So, my last question is, is advancing the timing for power gain dangerous for the engine? And also, is it a worth it for the amount of power you gain?

 

_________________

RIP Chelsea
96 EF2 Gli - T5 / Exedy / Wade 977b / P+P / JMM Extractors, 2.5" / Port matched BBM / and more
bmICE

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Fri May 04, 2007 3:29 am 
Oompa Loompa
Offline

Age: 35

Posts: 43

Joined: 1st Jan 2005

Ride: BA Fairmont

Location: Riverland
SA, Australia

i dont really know, but if it doesnt start knocking and carrying on it should be fine. as for the power gain and if its worth it. who knows, i cant see that its gonna give you massive power gains, maybe slight acceration but i dont know really know.?.?
Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Fri May 04, 2007 5:46 am 
Fordmods Addict
Offline
User avatar

Age: 31

Posts: 7958

Joined: 1st Jun 2005

Gallery: 13 images

Ride: Falcon

Power: 237 rwkw

Location: Melbourne
VIC, Australia

braidy wrote:
Okay, I understand now. So, my last question is, is advancing the timing for power gain dangerous for the engine? And also, is it a worth it for the amount of power you gain?

Not dangerous unless you do something ridiculous, which is pretty much impossible anyway because the TFI fouls on the ISC.
For something that takes 10 minutes max, its worth it, whether you notice the gains or not.

 

_________________

ED XR8 Sprint - S-Trim, V500, 249rwkw
BF MKII F6 Tornado - 237rwkw

Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:
Sort by  
 Page 1 of 1  [ 14 posts ] 

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 21 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

 

 

It is currently Thu Dec 14, 2017 12:15 pm All times are UTC + 11 hours

 

 

(c)2014 Total Web Solutions Australia - Australian Web Hosting and Domain Names