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Opinions on strange problem with EL Ghia 

 

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 Post subject: Opinions on strange problem with EL Ghia
Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 3:31 pm 
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Apologies in advance for the long winded message....
My Ghia has had some strange problems for about 9 months now... I've had a dozen different theories, a bag of parts replaced, and its still there... unchanged.

Here goes..

Car starts fine from stone cold (overnight)
Starts fine after having just been shut off.

BUT
When "warm" (shut down over an hour prior, but not all day... more like 1-3 hours) it won't start first crank.
But WILL start second crank, or if I hold the ignition on "start" for longer than 20 seconds (not good for the battery!)
Spark is fine, and I've been told Fuel pressure is ok. Injectors have been cleaned, I've used Higher than 91 octane fuel, Distributor, and Ignition coil have both been replaced.
no error codes.
I've been suggested that there may be a problem with the Crank Angle Sensor, but it was a long shot.

Problem is consistent, and unchanging. Started happening after the Head Gasket was fixed.

Rest of the car has been given a clean bill of health....



A seperate issue.... after starting the engine, it runs fine for a short time, but then as engine starts to warm, (about a minute) it splutters a lot, revs drop, and there is no power, unless you mash the throttle (which works for a minute or so, and then it starts dropping again, or the ECU detects the revs dropping too low, and bumps it back up. Almost like in the old days, when you turned off the choke too early. Once warm, it runs ok, but still hesitates momentarily



And then, as ANOTHER seperate issue, it runs very hot under some circumstances.
Most of the time, it runs fairly cool at about 87-91 degrees (cool days, flat road driving etc) But if the temps come up to over the 24 mark, and I have to drive up a few light hills (VERY light hills) the temps shoot up to the 100 degree mark or higher very quickly.
Temps do not raise when driving on the flat (stays low) even on a hot day.. only when under load.

Thermostat has been replaced, and coolant flushed. This also started happening around the time that the distributor was replaced, and they had a lot of trouble getting the car running right. I assumed this was related to the Head Gasket blowing but after the Head Gasket was fixed, the problem was still there.

What I'm wondering is....
When the distributor was replaced, it was because they'd gotten the original wet, and it stoppe working. Could this electrical problem have damaged the ECU in some way, causing some of these strange problems?

What would cause an engine to overheat when under a little load, and yet run cool the rest of the time? Could this be related to an ECU problem?

Am I on the right track here, or is there something totally obscure I haven't thought of that might be causing this?
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Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 3:47 pm 
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sorry but only problem I might help you on is your cooling prob.

when was the last time you checked between the condensor and radiator as they are well known for collecting crap in there, so might be worth checking,

The radiator might have a blockage.

Fans not working or not cutting in correctly.

Could also be timing related. which might solve some of your other issues too.

 

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Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 3:55 pm 
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I'd check base timing as AU99 mentioned, make sure the car is in diagnostic mode, and you have to wait for it to go through all the codes before you can check base.

 

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Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 3:56 pm 
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AU99 wrote:
sorry but only problem I might help you on is your cooling prob.

when was the last time you checked between the condensor and radiator as they are well known for collecting crap in there, so might be worth checking,

The radiator might have a blockage.

Fans not working or not cutting in correctly.

Could also be timing related. which might solve some of your other issues too.


Ta.
I had the Radiator flushed at the last service, (just after the gasket) and it runs a cool as, when its not under load (in fact a little too cool, if you like factory parameter goodness) I wouldn't expect a blockage in the radiator.

I will check the space between the condenser and the radiator though... thanks. Fans definately are working at correct temps and times.(I've tested this a few times)

I do still suspect the timing... but I've had it checked by those who know better several times, and been told its ok... it just seems to tie everything together somehow. Anyways thanks for the input!
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Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 11:02 pm 
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If this is an EL, it does not have a crank angle sensor, as it has a simple distributor.

Anyway: check/replace your fuel filter. If you haven't done this for umpteem kms., it needs replacing.

Check you Body Control Module (BCM) . EF/ELs have a bad habit of having a loose/dry connection to the starter motor. It is rectified by LIGHTLY banging the dashboard to the lower left of the steering column as you hold the key on "start"

If engine temp dramaticaly increases under load, a safe bet is that the head gasket is stuffed. I would suggest that whoever did the gasket stuffed it up. Did they torque the head down, or did they torque it down to a degree wheel?? (The former is better) Did they use new bolts??, did they use an AU gasket?? Did they shave the head??

These engines are also very sensitive to inlet manifold leaks. Check your inlet manifold bolts to head tightness. Also check to see you have no gaps along your inlet tract

O2 sensor?

Good luck :)
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Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 11:05 pm 
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can i make a few suggestions clean flush ya coolant... check isc or tps check spark plugs and check ya air filter othere then that i may be something simple like a loose connection or craked hose or something

 

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Posted: Sat Sep 22, 2007 10:37 pm 
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fuel filter or bodgy pump or relay for pump will cause it to take it time to get fuel to the injeectors and in some causes will show good feal presure

granddads commodore had a bad pump and it would show good presure with ignison on then you try and start it and no go the pump would stop turn it back to ignison on and check presure gauge again but pump would have started again and showed good pressure it had him stuffed it was'nt till i was acuruly waitchin the gauge throw all start up i seen presure dropping up and down

prob nothing to do with yours but just another storie...
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Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 1:24 pm 
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My EF used to run cool-as on cool days on the flat - but when it got hot or had some hills, up went the guage.
A new radiator fixed the problem.
I think it had blockages and made the total volume of coolant available for cooling much less, hence ok when no load, but given some work, there just wasn't enough coolant volume to cope.

 

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Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 2:40 pm 
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Im having the exact same problem as 96ghia. Problem 1 and 2 that is. Not number 3 :)
Problem 1 is the most embarassing but, specially when ur infront of people @ a shopping centre car park!
Nice looking car, that just wont kick over :\ Sitting there holding the ignition lol

Problem 2, i just laugh at every time it does it!
96ghia explained it perfectly. Feels as though the choke wasnt left on for long enough..

 

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Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 4:30 pm 
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Problem 1,

My girlfriends EL did this too.
I replaced the carbon canister thing under the guard and it went away. I guess they just get blocked up with crap from years of driving.

Let us know how you go.

 

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Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 4:39 pm 
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doofus wrote:
Im having the exact same problem as 96ghia. Problem 1 and 2 that is. Not number 3 :)
Problem 1 is the most embarassing but, specially when ur infront of people @ a shopping centre car park!
Nice looking car, that just wont kick over :\ Sitting there holding the ignition lol

Problem 2, i just laugh at every time it does it!
96ghia explained it perfectly. Feels as though the choke wasnt left on for long enough..

Glad to hear I'm not mad!
creeture3 wrote:
check/replace your fuel filter. If you haven't done this for umpteem kms., it needs replacing.
Check: Will have this done next time its in.
creeture3 wrote:
Check you Body Control Module (BCM) . EF/ELs have a bad habit of having a loose/dry connection to the starter motor. It is rectified by LIGHTLY banging the dashboard to the lower left of the steering column as you hold the key on "start"

hmmm! interesting. I'll try this next time.
creeture3 wrote:
If engine temp dramaticaly increases under load, a safe bet is that the head gasket is stuffed. I would suggest that whoever did the gasket stuffed it up. Did they torque the head down, or did they torque it down to a degree wheel?? (The former is better) Did they use new bolts??, did they use an AU gasket?? Did they shave the head??

The Head was done by Crescent Motorsports at Liverpool (proud hosts of the Sydney Fordmods Dyno Day's and all Ford 6 experts) so I have no doubts that it was done expertly.

creeture3 wrote:
These engines are also very sensitive to inlet manifold leaks. Check your inlet manifold bolts to head tightness. Also check to see you have no gaps along your inlet tract
Yes, I've had an Inlet Manifold leak before, but this doesn't feel like the same thing. But I will mark this down to be checked next time its in for service.

Froudey wrote:
can i make a few suggestions clean flush ya coolant... check isc or tps check spark plugs and check ya air filter othere then that i may be something simple like a loose connection or craked hose or something

I've had the coolant flushed already, but it didn't make too much difference. might get a replacement radiator instead next time.
ISC, I'll get checked.
Spark Plugs and leads were replaced last time, with no change. The air filter was replaced too.

spaz ef wrote:
fuel filter or bodgy pump or relay for pump will cause it to take it time to get fuel to the injectors and in some causes will show good feal presure

Interesting, as I had the fuel pressure checked last time (when the injectors were cleaned, off-car) and it was reported as being ok...
What I don't get is why its happening when "warm" (as opposed to Hot or Cold) and at no other time..


smithy_1 wrote:
My EF used to run cool-as on cool days on the flat - but when it got hot or had some hills, up went the guage.
A new radiator fixed the problem.
I think it had blockages and made the total volume of coolant available for cooling much less, hence ok when no load, but given some work, there just wasn't enough coolant volume to cope.


I think I might do this next time. The radiator was replaced not long after I bought it (June 03) So it might be worth doing this again... I'll get a copper cored one this time!


Thanks for all the input! Its given me a lot of good things to specifically ask to have checked next time its in. Fingers crossed!
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Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 4:45 pm 
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EF 4.9 wrote:
Problem 1,

My girlfriends EL did this too.
I replaced the carbon canister thing under the guard and it went away. I guess they just get blocked up with crap from years of driving.

Let us know how you go.


AHA! This sounds promising.... WIll let you know how I go.
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 Post subject: Sounds like your ford is a twin of mine..
Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 3:03 am 
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Had exsactly the same problem after doing my head gasket....Turns out the D!ck that done my head messed with the timing chain ..ended up 2 teeth out !!! WAS NOT HAPPY :evil:
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Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 6:08 pm 
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OK here's an update

After the ignition coil was replaced, the car was doing that strange "Not starting on Warm" thing.

About a week or 2 from replacing the ignnition coil, it has stopped doing it.
Whether this was because the computer had to re-adjust itself, I don't know. But its much better :-)
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