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What gear on the Chassis Dyno pulls more kwatts ???????????? 

 

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Posted: Sat Jun 03, 2006 11:05 pm 
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davets50 wrote:
to try and answer the original question,
in THEORY, the lower the gear, the higher the torque reading multiplyed by engine RPM and some number i cant remember SHOULD equal a higher KW due to the torque multiplucation of the lower gears, and the results should very quite abit between the auto and manual depending if the torque converter is in lockup mode or not, but since i have only ever used engine dynos i cant give a definate answer


Yeah sure "lower the gear the higher the torque".
BUT
Work=ForcexDistance=Torque
Power=ForcexDistance/Time=Watts
Energy=capacity or potential to do Work

Energy can neither be created or destroyed but can change from one form to another. (First Law of Thermodynamics)
You can't make more kW than you start with only loose some energy to heat.

Geared reduction will create additional friction than say a direct drive so it will theoretically cause additional heat to be generated and therefore a reduction in Power.

There is no free lunch.
You cannot break even.
It is impossible to build a machine that produces as much energy as it uses. (Otherwise known as a perpetual motion machine of the second kind.)
The way I understand it, what FPV_GTp is trying to determine is what gear causes least friction losses but can still reach peak power in that gear.

 

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Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 12:23 pm 
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Results?? :D

 

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Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 12:39 pm 
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Waggin wrote:
Results?? :D


yeah i want a simple answer. what gear does!! :P

 

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Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 1:05 pm 
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mr_sperm1 wrote:
Waggin wrote:
Results?? :D


yeah i want a simple answer. what gear does!! :P


Simple answer is no gears give a power advantage on the tests we did on Saturday.

Although I do have some nice pics of my jet-hot coated extractors glowing red. :D

I will let FPV_GTp give you all the final details, as I dont have them at hand.

But the test was conducted with a stock ED Sprint manual and an EL Ghia Auto (my car).

Essentially every run that could be graphed was within a couple of kw of each other.

3rd and 4th couldnt be done in the auto, as my speed limiter kicked in. Hence why operators run autos in second. Not for a power advantage, but only because it is the only gear allows you to hit the redline. Obviously 1st gear will allow it, but it happens all so quickly on the dyno.

I cant remember all the results with the Sprint (I was on the phone while it was being run), save to say it ended with the same results. Whatever runs that didnt hit a redline or speedlimiter were within a couple of kw of each other.

But it must be said that the Sprint did max out the dyno speed of 200km/h, and was very smooth and unruffled running at those speeds. :D Shame Darren decided to wreck the Sprint he puchased. After driving one, I was considering rescuing it and becomming a boxcar owner. :shock:
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Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 1:21 pm 
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Yes, being in the passengers seat while my car went off the dial, and seeing "MAX SPEED!" in big red letters on the dyno screen is pretty cool :D
From memory (we had no ink for the printer :P) I did near enough to 130rwkw in 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th.
As mentioned, 5th didnt hit peak(nowhere near it :D) before the dynos max speed of 200km/h.
Also like to add it's a tie between the two V8s (mine and Ivans) for best noise :P
Hopefully Ivan can get the graphs up.

 

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Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 1:26 pm 
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Steady ED wrote:
Also like to add it's a tie between the two V8s (mine and Ivans) for best noise :P


Pfft... There's nothing like the sound of an I6 screaming its tits off on a dyno! For pure noise, I would say mine was the winner. :D
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Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 1:27 pm 
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+1 point for thermodynamics

 

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Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 1:52 pm 
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Excellent!

Adrian- Once results are available, perhaps you could write up a doco which we can point people to to cut the s**t :D

 

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Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 2:50 pm 
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Waggin wrote:
Excellent!

Adrian- Once results are available, perhaps you could write up a doco which we can point people to to cut the s**t :D


Can be organised...

The reason there are no graphs it due to my inability to organise some ink for the dyno printer in time.

Buuuutt, ink was purchased today. Printouts will follow. :D

However, I can't see it cutting the s**t... I know there will be certain members who will not believe it, as the results are always "fixed" to screw them over. 8-)
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Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 2:52 pm 
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arm79 wrote:
Waggin wrote:
Excellent!

Adrian- Once results are available, perhaps you could write up a doco which we can point people to to cut the s**t :D


Can be organised...

The reason there are no graphs it due to my inability to organise some ink for the dyno printer in time.

Buuuutt, ink was purchased today. Printouts will follow. :D

However, I can't see it cutting the s**t... I know there will be certain members who will not believe it, as the results are always "fixed" to screw them over. 8-)


Oh this will always happen, just saves those who believe in the results from having to repeat themselves without having good hard evidence readily available :P

 

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Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 4:45 pm 
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did you guys have time to do a few runs with incorrect settings in the dyno to show what some of the less honest operators can do to inflate readings?

 

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Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 5:11 pm 
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tickford_6 wrote:
did you guys have time to do a few runs with incorrect settings in the dyno to show what some of the less honest operators can do to inflate readings?


On the version of software that FPV_GTp uses, there are 2 operator setable "variables". While we didn't use these variables during this test, they have been demonstrated to me before, and what they will do to the end results.

These operator setable variables are esentially multipliers. So if the operator enters "1.20" into one of these fields, magic, you instantly have a power figure and a graph that is 20% greater than what your car acutally does.

Another simple method of bumping up the figures is to not put the inlet temperature sensor on the car. Every version of Dyno Dynamics dyno software has an inlet air temperature power compensation calculation. The higher the inlet temperature, the higher the power figure you will get.

So if you want to add a few rwkw onto your graph you can:

a) Dyno test on a hot day, but leave the temperature probe hanging on the cabinet against the hot wall - instant kw
b) Hold the end of the probe in your hand - instant kw
c) Hold the end of the probe under your armpit - even more instat kw

Once again, this wasnt tested on Saturday, but has been demonstrated and proven to me in the past.

Waggin wrote:
Can you also run some comparisons with different modes on the Dyno? Alot of people are sceptical about 'Shootout Mode' on the DD dyno's... Show us how much the operator can/can't fudge results


I forgot about this question!

FPV_GTp doesnt run "Shootout Software" on his dyno. He is a pre-Shootout version of the software.

Apparently the difference between this version and previous versions is that the operator setable variables (operator setable variables / x factor / nudge factor / fudge factor - call it what you will) are set at fixed, unalterable values. These values are preset for 4,6 and 8 cylinder vehicles. And when I say unalterable, someone has confirmed this for me by hitting the appropriate buttons on a dyno with Shootout software.

In this case, there was no response to the the buttons pressed. But on earlier software versions, you get the extra variable screen pop up.
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