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| garthr |
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even the sensitivity of the auto stop will be different from one pump to another, - i usually stop at first click since they reckon you lose fuel into breather system if u go any further than that.
_________________ Garthr
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| fiftyone |
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i'd like to see some dyno figures on this. as well as a/f ratios and more photos.
i imagine that the fuzz wouldnt particully like a glass jar full of gas, electrodes and chemicals. but its interesting. more information!
_________________ ** For Sale ** {DESCRIPTION} |
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| garthr |
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Quote: imagine that the fuzz wouldnt particully like a glass jar full of gas, electrodes and chemicals
i'd reckon u would get away with saying it is a water injection system.
_________________ Garthr
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| Old mate Marcus |
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{USERNAME} wrote: Quote: imagine that the fuzz wouldnt particully like a glass jar full of gas, electrodes and chemicals i'd reckon u would get away with saying it is a water injection system. Hahahahahaha, yer right garth. " yes officer its a water injection system off an F1 11." ....... officer says " you have the right to remain silent... etc etc..." hehehehehe. judge who is on the oil company's payrole says " lock him up with the rest of them mad inventers". hahahaha 
_________________ Racing V8 Super Cars at www.austeamracing.com using the rfactor online racing game. |
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| garthr |
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update - mileage has dropped right off over last day or so - back to about 10 kpl, checked cell - looked as if it was working but checked gas output and was just about nothing at all.
opened it up and negative electrode was all covered in red/brown slimy coating, same stuff that builds up and sinks to the bottom. tried cleaning it off, but even though it wipes off easily it is not easy to reach all surfaces of the wire. retried with what cleaning i could do and gas output was better but not as good as in the beginning, so replaced entire negative electrode, and fresh electrolyte and tested - all good. So looks like this design is only good for about a week (or 300km or so) between cleaning which is not exactly user friendly. Need to try some different setups next - probably one with plates - should hopefully produce better gas output too. Apparently from what i can gather my 2.4 litre motor probably needs closer to half a litre per minute of hydroxy gas. And my cell is only producing between 200 to 250 ml per minute.
_________________ Garthr
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| Old mate Marcus |
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Hmm, my pet hate, cleaning. Ya just gunna have ta redesign it Garth, hahahaha. An elotronic self cleaner like the one on my salt water pool cell, would that be possable?. Could there be a way to reverse the poles or something to repell the build up a sludge, I know that your in the early stagers of development but its worth keeping in mind or looking into something like that.
_________________ Racing V8 Super Cars at www.austeamracing.com using the rfactor online racing game. |
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| steojj |
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I read somewhere that u need to install an additional third plate/electrode which is neutral to do away with the sludge.....
Using distilled water would decrease the sludge as well because it contains less dissolved minerals and ferum (iron) compared to tap water. The red/brown stuff are oxidized minerals. |
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| garthr |
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{USERNAME} wrote: I read somewhere that u need to install an additional third plate/electrode which is neutral to do away with the sludge..... yeah - that's the direction i'm going next, plates with at least 2 neutral ones.
Using distilled water would decrease the sludge as well because it contains less dissolved minerals and ferum (iron) compared to tap water. The red/brown stuff are oxidized minerals. i'm using filtered rain water so shouldn't be far off being distilled. i think the red sludge is iron out of the stainless - probably from the anode (it stays shiny)
_________________ Garthr
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| Rick's EF Fairmont Wagon |
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from the articles they have found you get best results with perforated stainless plates.
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| heydonms |
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From the looks of it, this thing is just using electrolysis to drive a
2h20 -> 2h2 + o2 reaction. The gas mixture is then fed into the intake and burnt. If that is the case, you will wind up with a net loss of power. |
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| steojj |
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{USERNAME} wrote: From the looks of it, this thing is just using electrolysis to drive a
2h20 -> 2h2 + o2 reaction. The gas mixture is then fed into the intake and burnt. If that is the case, you will wind up with a net loss of power. Yo heydonms, Would like to hear more on that......... what u have in mind |
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| heydonms |
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Conservation of energy says that you can't get more energy out of a system than you put in.
In this case you are putting in fuel, which is burnt to produce movement and electricity. The electricity is used to drive electrolysis which produces a gas containing chemical energy. The gas is burnt to produce movement and electricity. In a perfect system you could build a closed loop that would keep running for ever. In practice you will lose energy at every stage (as heat, lost gas, noise, etc). By increasing the number of stages you increase the losses. The site makes various claims using chemical terms, but fails to give an actual equation. Aside from the fact that none of the people involved in this stuff would be chemists, a balanced redox equation would show that energy is lost. There have been numerous claims regarding this sort of thing in the past, none of them have stood up to independent investigation (in fact that site mentions Stan Myer who was pretty much convicted of being a con man for selling rights to his water engines). |
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| garthr |
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excuse me - but nobody is talking about this being a perfect system or closed loop or over unity etc.
all that i am trying to acheive is better efficiency overall. hydrogen is just being produced to act as a catalyst with existing fuel and minimise wasted unburnt fuel. if there was indeed a net loss then mileage should have gone down with the cell running when in fact it improves. if you ask me less dollars at the bowser is always worth looking for.
_________________ Garthr
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| heydonms |
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Fair enough, except that as far as I am aware, hydrogen doesn't act as a catalyst in a petrol+air reaction.
If I am wrong about that then I would be very interested in setting this system up myself, but I'm fairly sure I'm not. Aside from that, the 2h2 + o2 -> h2o reaction has a relatively low activation energy, so hydrogen wouldn't hang around to act as a catalyst anyway. I understand that water injection can improve performance somewhat (I must admit that I'm not familiar with how it works exactly) so this system may perform in a similar way to a water injection setup, with the disadvantages of leaching power from your electrical system and that some water is lost in the conversion (i.e. you would be better off with a normal water injection system). I won't go into the reasons why one person (who wants the experiment to succeed) driving one car around the city is a poor method of obtaining reliable results. |
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| steojj |
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I sort of drawn a simple block diagram of an engine fitted with the HHO system. Do correct me if i am wrong.........
It is true that we cant get more energy than the amount we put it. The total energy of the whole system is fixed. However, in HHO system, not all of the kinetic energy is converted into electricity. Electricity is used to charge the battery and power up car electrical system. Then, a portion of that electric power is then converted again into chemical power in the form of combustible gas through electrolyzer (with some losses as well of course). The combustible gas is fedback into engine. Since there is another form of fuel present in engine, so less gasoline is needed to give same output power. This is what people are looking for......lesser gasoline!! We can see it like taking away a fraction of needed gasoline but replace the fraction with the gas. Same amount of energy output but with lesser fuel You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post. |
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