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advantages of 3" exhaust on supercharged 4ltr 

 

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3" or stay 2 1/2
go 3" exhaust 69%  69%  [ 18 ]
stay 2 1/2 31%  31%  [ 8 ]
Total votes : 26

 

 

 
 Post subject: Re: advantages of 3" exhaust on supercharged 4ltr
Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 6:29 pm 
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Steady ED wrote:
i think for dollars vs gains, the 3" exhaust is going to be pretty bad value at your current power level.
I agree with joexr6 in that I reckon you are better off looking at some form of charge cooling so the tune can be a bit more a agressive, safely.
How much boost is it running now to make 175?


so far its making 10psi @ about 5300rpm.. then the map sensor cuts fuel..
to be honest i did expect a bit more than 175 at 10 psi..
but the seat of the pants feel is great..lol
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 Post subject: Re: advantages of 3" exhaust on supercharged 4ltr
Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 7:11 pm 
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i'm not saying your a penny pincher troyman, just a little financially conservative if anything lol

but your after bang for your buck and from what people are saying,the 3'' has it's merits, but costwise theres better things to spend equivalent moneys on, i'm not arguing that at all but i'm not one to tell people how to spend their money, i'm bad enough at it myself lol. just saying that if made cheap enough, it might be a good mod, and spend the leftovers on your wi kit, and it would all turn out to be a great package for equivalant cost of the retail 3''... can't argue with that can you ? if possible of course, worth considering though.

 

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 Post subject: Re: advantages of 3" exhaust on supercharged 4ltr
Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 1:01 am 
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Mate might be worth going back to joes to get another tune or run because your should be making dead on 200rwkw no ifs or buts.

You had the tps issue throwing s**t out of wack seriously go back just to check it you might be surprised.
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 Post subject: Re: advantages of 3" exhaust on supercharged 4ltr
Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 1:59 am 
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Any idea what the air temp your motor is sucking at 10psi on your beast? I'd expect it to be getting pretty warm.

I'd imagine you'd see more benefit from cooling the charge than upgrading was is doubtless a reasonably free flowing exhaust anyway. I have only a mandral 2.5 inch, but with a 3 inch magnaflow cat grafted on as I figured I'd be boosting and that the cat would probably be a restriction when boosted.
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 Post subject: Re: advantages of 3" exhaust on supercharged 4ltr
Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 8:52 am 
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RAPTOR_XR8 wrote:
Mate might be worth going back to joes to get another tune or run because your should be making dead on 200rwkw no ifs or buts.

You had the tps issue throwing s**t out of wack seriously go back just to check it you might be surprised.


the thing that gets me is the night it was first tuned it performed good.. untill start up the next morning.. :roll: .. its a little frustrating how the isc and tps died at the same time?
its at joes today getting another tune..
if i still have issues with the tune after that the smt piggyback will be going in the bin!
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 Post subject: Re: advantages of 3" exhaust on supercharged 4ltr
Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 8:56 am 
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frankieh wrote:
Any idea what the air temp your motor is sucking at 10psi on your beast? I'd expect it to be getting pretty warm.

I'd imagine you'd see more benefit from cooling the charge than upgrading was is doubtless a reasonably free flowing exhaust anyway. I have only a mandral 2.5 inch, but with a 3 inch magnaflow cat grafted on as I figured I'd be boosting and that the cat would probably be a restriction when boosted.


i dont know what the air temp is?
but one thing i noticed is that i can hold my hand on the supercharger after a good run so the s/c temp it not that high but i know the compressed air temp it self may be higher??
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 Post subject: Re: advantages of 3" exhaust on supercharged 4ltr
Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 11:15 am 
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The Raptor blower units run very cool.
Mine after a few runs when i first got it you could put your hand on the blower and keep it there,it was warm but not hot.
When left to idle down it actually gets cooler on the body of the thing,i think the ceramic coating has something to do with it.
It gets some heat sink on a hot day in traffic of course but once on the highway it's cooling down as you go along.
Back to the 3 inch thing,i did it and i'm happy with the gains achieved.

 

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 Post subject: Re: advantages of 3" exhaust on supercharged 4ltr
Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 11:38 am 
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This is an excellent topic TROYMAN. One that I have often thought about and wondered. Your your system is very similar to mine, and you seem to be getting the same amount of power at the wheels too. I always wondered why mine isnt getting the magic 200rwkw also. Some have said, exhaust is the weakest link. My tuner reckons its the cam, and/or the lack of an intercooler to run higher amounts of boost. Im not sure, could be a combination of the lot.

Your running 10psi, that alot as my boost gauge is only reading about 4-5lbs @ 5000rpm.

Does your have a cam?

 

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 Post subject: Re: advantages of 3" exhaust on supercharged 4ltr
Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 11:42 am 
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Thats strange when i had the raptor on my xr8 i touched it n burnt my friggen hand, maybe you should try an intercooler or water injection.
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 Post subject: Re: advantages of 3" exhaust on supercharged 4ltr
Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 11:57 am 
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some charge cooling and a 3 inch should be on the list lol. but then where do you stop.... lol. I dont have the answer to that one.

the cooling will give you a tighter tune ( centris dont run as higher temps as turbos since you dont have 300 deg exhaust gasses passing through it) so it wont have as much impact as putting one on a turbo, but still it would be a good idea. w2a might be overkill, a2a should be more than sufficient to keep a raptors boost temp low, while at the same time saving weight. dont know how much boost loss you will get with the intercooler though. i think it will make it feel less edgy as the boost pressures up the system, since the centri's boost is linear it will be more evident than the turbo's when they give a constant psi once spooled. would have to speak to someone who has a centri and intercooling, and wether or not it affected how the boost feels when it comes on.

the 3 inch pipe will give you better breathing, and you will rev out slightly faster, meaning improved throttle response, and easier access of boost.

how far back does the twin 2" xrturbo system go? if you could find one cheap enough whack that under and then 3 inch it to the back... might save some $$ who knows.

 

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 Post subject: Re: advantages of 3" exhaust on supercharged 4ltr
Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 12:29 pm 
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Grimketel wrote:
some charge cooling and a 3 inch should be on the list lol. but then where do you stop.... lol. I dont have the answer to that one.

the cooling will give you a tighter tune ( centris dont run as higher temps as turbos since you dont have 300 deg exhaust gasses passing through it) so it wont have as much impact as putting one on a turbo, but still it would be a good idea. w2a might be overkill, a2a should be more than sufficient to keep a raptors boost temp low, while at the same time saving weight. dont know how much boost loss you will get with the intercooler though. i think it will make it feel less edgy as the boost pressures up the system, since the centri's boost is linear it will be more evident than the turbo's when they give a constant psi once spooled. would have to speak to someone who has a centri and intercooling, and wether or not it affected how the boost feels when it comes on.

the 3 inch pipe will give you better breathing, and you will rev out slightly faster, meaning improved throttle response, and easier access of boost.

how far back does the twin 2" xrturbo system go? if you could find one cheap enough whack that under and then 3 inch it to the back... might save some $$ who knows.


AFAIK an a2a loses about 2-4lbs, and a w2a loses less than 1lb. A w2a while over kill I reckon would reap more rewards over an a2a. But this is just speculation. Im yet to see someone with a a2a mounted to a raptor to compare.

But back to the topic of a 3" exhaust, I reckon a 3" combined with some form of intercooling and a custom tune will see larger results obviously. A 3" with a custom tune only, not as much if running stock boost. I guess it depends on the 'bang for buck' scenario you personally have with your car.

 

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 Post subject: Re: advantages of 3" exhaust on supercharged 4ltr
Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 2:50 pm 
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Not a Raptor, but testing on my Powerdyne using 3" aluminium intercooler piping and a PWR 300mm air to air intercooler I'm loosing 6 psi - this is calculated as I am running a 12psi pulley (which is near to what it would probably achieve if run straight to the throttle body), the Powerdyne has been rebuilt with a 928 Motorsports CNC machined impeller which is meant to increase boost by 20% (so the 12 psi pulley should now be a 14psi + setup) and only making 9psi.
I found that when I originally had the 600mm PWR intercooler (at that time the Powerdyne had a 9psi pulley fitted and had not been rebuilt with the 928 Motorsport impeller) I was loosing 5 psi as I was only able to achieve 4 psi of boost.
As it is at the moment is right where I want it though as my fuel setup is designed for 9psi boost maximum. I have a 928 Motorsport Boost Limiter Valve next to the BOV to vent off any extra boost beyond 9psi just incase for some reason that ever happens (safety measure).

Anyways, my point is that it's useless to say that an A2A will loose this much and a W2A this much. It depends on what boost levels your running, what size intercooler piping your running and how long it is, and what size and type of intercooler your running (as these effect how much air is between the supercharger and the engine - so what volume of air that the supercharger has to compress).

 

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 Post subject: Re: advantages of 3" exhaust on supercharged 4ltr
Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 3:00 pm 
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twr7cx wrote:
Not a Raptor, but testing on my Powerdyne using 3" aluminium intercooler piping and a PWR 300mm air to air intercooler I'm loosing 6 psi - this is calculated as I am running a 12psi pulley (which is near to what it would probably achieve if run straight to the throttle body), the Powerdyne has been rebuilt with a 928 Motorsports CNC machined impeller which is meant to increase boost by 20% (so the 12 psi pulley should now be a 14psi + setup) and only making 9psi.
I found that when I originally had the 600mm PWR intercooler (at that time the Powerdyne had a 9psi pulley fitted and had not been rebuilt with the 928 Motorsport impeller) I was loosing 5 psi as I was only able to achieve 4 psi of boost.
As it is at the moment is right where I want it though as my fuel setup is designed for 9psi boost maximum. I have a 928 Motorsport Boost Limiter Valve next to the BOV to vent off any extra boost beyond 9psi just incase for some reason that ever happens (safety measure).

Anyways, my point is that it's useless to say that an A2A will loose this much and a W2A this much. It depends on what boost levels your running, what size intercooler piping your running and how long it is, and what size and type of intercooler your running (as these effect how much air is between the supercharger and the engine - so what volume of air that the supercharger has to compress).


what you say is true indeed. I was going off what someone with a similar system was telling me in round about figures. In no way are my estimates correct. Just thought Id throw some numbers out there as a guide. But generally speaking a w2a system loses less boost than a a2a system. As far as how much, yes, there are a lot of different variances which will alter the outcome of each vehicle setup.

 

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 Post subject: Re: advantages of 3" exhaust on supercharged 4ltr
Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 3:56 pm 
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I have a 3" on my fairmont with a Powerdyne. It has water injecton and a chip torque chip. When this kit was fitted like 4 years ago it made 200kw. The dude who i bought the car off put a 3" exhaust on it and said it went a bit better but he never got a re tune.

If you do go a 3" please ensure you dont get drone.... its driving me insane!

 

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 Post subject: Re: advantages of 3" exhaust on supercharged 4ltr
Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 4:31 pm 
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shav wrote:
This is an excellent topic TROYMAN. One that I have often thought about and wondered. Your your system is very similar to mine, and you seem to be getting the same amount of power at the wheels too. I always wondered why mine isnt getting the magic 200rwkw also. Some have said, exhaust is the weakest link. My tuner reckons its the cam, and/or the lack of an intercooler to run higher amounts of boost. Im not sure, could be a combination of the lot.

Your running 10psi, that alot as my boost gauge is only reading about 4-5lbs @ 5000rpm.

Does your have a cam?


it has no problems making the 10 psi just not the power..
and the cam is just a std au vct...

well its not related to the exhaust but went to get it tuned today and now the au injectors cant flow enough.. it only made 155rwkw with afr of 14.5 with the au injectors. while it made 175rwkw with afr of 10:1 with the ba ones..
but it still wheel spins on the dyno though..
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