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5.0efi vs I6 

 

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Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2005 9:29 pm 
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Bassfreak55 wrote:
Daniel wrote:
Sometime I too feel like my car is a slow slug POS, all i gotta do is jump in my 6cyl for a few days and then hop back in the 8, boy there is a difference, so long as it isnt too hot, it loses power in warmer weather a fair bit IMHO.
Altho, what car doesnt. :wink:


Yeah i know its 'sorta' quick, i suppose, but if you compare the stock windsor it to the oil munching ls1's, theyve got nothing. Thats one of the reasons why i want a lil more power also, most of my mates are holden fans (god help them) with ls1's with up to 230kw at the engine. Compare that to my pissy 170kw and its laughable.

Well most of my mates has 6cyl, and me having 195-200kw at the fly makes it fast in comparison when we go for a drive - what im saying is just coz it doesnt feel fast doesnt mean it isnt, i want faster too, but god knows i proberly dont *need* faster..
LS1 is a good power making engine imo, the ol 5L windsor is a bit dated in comparison altho with a few mods we can keep up.
In stock form my car kept up with a vx ss ute going upto bout 100 but 100-120 it killed me, then i slowly started to make some ground up but it was over my then obviously..

Dont forget not all LS1's had huge power, the early ones are quite beatable unless have been worked somewhere.

 

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Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2005 9:38 pm 
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Yeah but i want it to feel fast aswell, not just to me, but to whoever sits in it.. The problem is though, even if its 250rwkw, it'll be fast for a certain amount of time, until u get used to it, then you'll want more.. Its a vicious cycle, or so ive been told, lol!
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Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2005 9:41 pm 
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To retain drivability the figure of 1hp per cubic inch has been used for a long time, EFI has allowed you to push that a bit further but you are never going to get much more that around 220rwkw out of a 5L, 180rwkw out of an I6 or 250rwkw out of a 347ci stroker without sacrificing a lot of drivability. The only real way around it is increasing capacity or going forced induction.

As others have said, 200rwkw feels awesome let alone 250. A 200rwkw V8 package can be done fairly cheaply, anything more and the price gets very expensive very quickly.

Bassfreak55 wrote:
The problem is though, even if its 250rwkw, it'll be fast for a certain amount of time, until u get used to it, then you'll want more.. Its a vicious cycle, or so ive been told, lol!


Thats true, you always get use to the power you have but again anything over 200rwkw is always a bit of fun to drive.
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Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2005 9:50 pm 
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EDXR8 wrote:
To retain drivability the figure of 1hp per cubic inch has been used for a long time, EFI has allowed you to push that a bit further but you are never going to get much more that around 220rwkw out of a 5L, 180rwkw out of an I6 or 250rwkw out of a 347ci stroker without sacrificing a lot of drivability. The only real way around it is increasing capacity or going forced induction.

As others have said, 200rwkw feels awesome let alone 250. A 200rwkw V8 package can be done fairly cheaply, anything more and the price gets very expensive very quickly.

Bassfreak55 wrote:
The problem is though, even if its 250rwkw, it'll be fast for a certain amount of time, until u get used to it, then you'll want more.. Its a vicious cycle, or so ive been told, lol!


Thats true, you always get use to the power you have but again anything over 200rwkw is always a bit of fun to drive.


Thanks for the info mate, that comes in handy!

Yeah i sorta agree too, 200 - 220 rwkw is done fairly cheaply, which will be the power figure obtained from the Trickflow kit that i will be buying soon (as soon as i figure out how i am going to intall it!). The kit is rated at 360hp. Just out of curiosity though, how come ive been quoted 200 to 220rwkw and not something more accurate? Its just that a 20rwkw difference is a fair bit IMO.
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Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2005 9:54 pm 
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Bassfreak55 wrote:
Just out of curiosity though, how come ive been quoted 200 to 220rwkw and not something more accurate? Its just that a 20rwkw difference is a fair bit IMO.


Because different engines will put out different power even with the same mods. The main thing is tuning really, a good tune with those mods can give 20rwkw difference easily.
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Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2005 9:58 pm 
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I havn't come across any LS1's very quick on the street....

If I was to buld a nice combo Windsor I'd go 3.25 stroke 5.4 " rods, lightest pistons I could get. Crane 2031 cam, AFR 205 or TFS highports or R series heads, Edelbock RPM, TFS track heat inlet, 75mm throttle body and 76 pro-m maf with 30Lb calibration for 30 Lb injectors, 255 Walbro intank pump and aftermart fuel rails...Aim for 9.5 to 10.1 compression... 3.9 diff ratio.. Maybe lower [4.1] if auto..Would need quiet but good exhaust....

 

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Last edited by EBXR8380 on Sat Jan 15, 2005 10:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2005 10:00 pm 
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EDXR8 wrote:
Bassfreak55 wrote:
Just out of curiosity though, how come ive been quoted 200 to 220rwkw and not something more accurate? Its just that a 20rwkw difference is a fair bit IMO.


Because different engines will put out different power even with the same mods. The main thing is tuning really, a good tune with those mods can give 20rwkw difference easily.


Really?
So if i were to get it tuned properly using the standard ecu, that could produce 220rwkw with that kit if all is done properly?

How about if using a piggyback ecu, for example a unichip or tweecer, would that yield even better results? Or little to no difference?

Cheers.
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Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2005 10:11 pm 
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How about if using a piggyback ecu, for example a unichip or tweecer, would that yield even better results? Or little to no difference?

It would only make a difference if there was a tuning issue..Like too lean or rich etc...Same with timing...

 

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Project 1UZ-EF has started.. S475 Turbo 4.0 V8 Mustang Celica.....

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Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2005 10:14 pm 
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EBXR8380 wrote:
It would only make a difference if there was a tuning issue..Like too lean or rich etc...Same with timing...


True. So if AFR ratios are bang on, then there's no point in using it..
Oh well, have to wait 'til the time comes i guess..
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Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2005 10:19 pm 
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Bassfreak55 wrote:
True. So if AFR ratios are bang on, then there's no point in using it..
Oh well, have to wait 'til the time comes i guess..


Yeah exactly, if you run a good quality MAF like Pro-M which is calibrated to your injectors the AF ratios are normally good. But you won't know till its done and you get it on the dyno. Also comes down to how good the other components are, like age of engine (if you are not planning on rebuilding), exhaust system, fuel system etc
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Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2005 10:24 pm 
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EDXR8 wrote:
Bassfreak55 wrote:
True. So if AFR ratios are bang on, then there's no point in using it..
Oh well, have to wait 'til the time comes i guess..


Yeah exactly, if you run a good quality MAF like Pro-M which is calibrated to your injectors the AF ratios are normally good. But you won't know till its done and you get it on the dyno. Also comes down to how good the other components are, like age of engine (if you are not planning on rebuilding), exhaust system, fuel system etc


Yeah thats what i was intending on doing sometime during the kit install - buying a MAF off Shane with matching injectors. The engine only has 80,000kms and ive got a set of Pacemaker tri-y's with a single 3" exhaust. If needed, ill install a better flowing fuel pump.

So in your opinion, how does that sound, any restrictions there that you can see? Or anything else that i could add that may help out?

Cheers.
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Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2005 10:26 pm 
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EBXR8380 wrote:
I havn't come across any LS1's very quick on the street....

If I was to buld a nice combo Windsor I'd go 3.25 stroke 5.4 " rods, lightest pistons I could get. Crane 2031 cam, AFR 205 or TFS highports or R series heads, Edelbock RPM, TFS track heat inlet, 75mm throttle body and 76 pro-m maf with 30Lb calibration for 30 Lb injectors, 255 Walbro intank pump and aftermart fuel rails...Aim for 9.5 to 10.1 compression... 3.9 diff ratio.. Maybe lower [4.1] if auto..Would need quiet but good exhaust....


So what kind of power would this combo make? do you have an idea of approx cost?
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Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2005 10:32 pm 
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aber_run wrote:
EBXR8380 wrote:
I havn't come across any LS1's very quick on the street....

If I was to buld a nice combo Windsor I'd go 3.25 stroke 5.4 " rods, lightest pistons I could get. Crane 2031 cam, AFR 205 or TFS highports or R series heads, Edelbock RPM, TFS track heat inlet, 75mm throttle body and 76 pro-m maf with 30Lb calibration for 30 Lb injectors, 255 Walbro intank pump and aftermart fuel rails...Aim for 9.5 to 10.1 compression... 3.9 diff ratio.. Maybe lower [4.1] if auto..Would need quiet but good exhaust....


So what kind of power would this combo make? do you have an idea of approx cost?


Yeah good question, out of curiosity anyway.
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Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2005 10:45 pm 
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Man, 200rwkw is alot of power. You will FEEL it, guarenteed. The problem is in wet weather - you will need some seriously sticky tyres ( read: expensive ) to handle that power or you'll have to be gentle with the throttle. I have some nice new soft compound and sticky tyres on mine and in the wet with full throttle down, three people in the car, the back end lets go and I'm sideways in gear changes going up a hill and I've just got bolt ons with my engine. 200rwkw is a bigger step.

 

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Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2005 11:05 pm 
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Vic wrote:
Man, 200rwkw is alot of power. You will FEEL it, guarenteed. The problem is in wet weather - you will need some seriously sticky tyres ( read: expensive ) to handle that power or you'll have to be gentle with the throttle. I have some nice new soft compound and sticky tyres on mine and in the wet with full throttle down, three people in the car, the back end lets go and I'm sideways in gear changes going up a hill and I've just got bolt ons with my engine. 200rwkw is a bigger step.

I hear that, i got decent tyres and it will step out a little even on the dry on some roads.. 200+rwkw will be very edgy to drive as you will constantly be thinking how much throttle you can safely apply..
From a stop with just me in the car i break traction a bit if i put the foot down a little too fast, altho my new tyres have made it much easier to take off with hardly any loss of traction!
As we all know, its not as simple as getting as much power as possible n planting your foot! LOL
What have you done to your engine vic; and what planned?
:P

 

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