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ECU Friendly Cam? 

 

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 Post subject: ECU Friendly Cam?
Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2007 11:04 pm 
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G'day Guys.

I have a mate who has recently purchased a Series 1 EL XR8 5spd. Unfortunately being series 1 he's copped the ol' HO & E7 combo, he realised this when purchasing the car as he has plans for a top end upgrade going with the GT40P/Explorer route.
Now he thought while going that far i may aswell go for a cam upgrade aswell.
Now his budget cant stretch far enough for a TwEECer or anything so we are looking for a cam that will run with the std ECU.
What are your guys suggestions for this sort of combo?
I'm thinking towards something in the Crow range but have heard their cam specs are designed for 1.7 ratio rockers, but the heads we are currently looking at come with 1.6's. Is this true?
Other than that i was thinking of the crane 2020? To go with the 1.6's.

Any advice is greatly appreciated.

Cheers Jeff

 

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Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2007 4:10 pm 
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Comp XE270HR would be as large as I'd go, or a Crow 621371. In Crane you are on the money a 2020 would be as large as I'd go.

The factory ECU will be able to handle cams of that size, especially in a manual, however you may need to tweak the base idle and timing, much like you have on your ute to prevent any unpleasant characteristics at idle.

 

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Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2007 5:16 pm 
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BOTTLEDUP wrote:
Comp XE270HR would be as large as I'd go, or a Crow 621371. In Crane you are on the money a 2020 would be as large as I'd go.

The factory ECU will be able to handle cams of that size, especially in a manual, however you may need to tweak the base idle and timing, much like you have on your ute to prevent any unpleasant characteristics at idle.


Cheers Dave, With the Crow cams, do you know if they ARE designed for 1.7 rockers?

The GT40P's i'm looking at come with Y/T adjustable 1.6's and are shaved 30 thou. Do you think there will be any issues with having this much shaved off the heads and running a larger cam. If it was only 10-20thou i wouldnt be as worried.

 

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Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2007 11:08 pm 
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Sorry but I don't understand the can't afford the tweecer bit. If you can afford the cam you can afford the tweecer. Buying a cam that will idle ok only to have to change it down the track because you haven't a means of tuning it tells me you should buy a tweecer first so you don't buy a cam twice...not to mention springs,retainers etc.
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Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 2:11 pm 
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All Crow's camshafts are listed with using a 1.62 ratio rocker... I'm not aware of them doing a grind that specifically needs a 1.7.

 

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Long rod 306, TFS 11R 205cc heads, SHP camshaft, 1.72 R/R, ported TFS Box R, 400hp NX SHO kit...

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Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 9:54 pm 
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BOTTLEDUP wrote:
All Crow's camshafts are listed with using a 1.62 ratio rocker... I'm not aware of them doing a grind that specifically needs a 1.7.


Cheers Dave, just what i wanted to hear.

These are the heads we are looking at getting.
Quote:
Chem cleaned,crack tested,ported and flowwed to 197cfm @550 thou lift (flow figures available to buyer),shaved 30 thou,heavy duty valve springs to suit cam with up to int .560 lift ,cm retainers,valves faced,seats cut,spring pressures set,new valve locks and valve stem seals.ARP head bolts 1.6:1 yella terra adjustable roller rockers.Done 6000km's since rebuilt.


Which cam do you think would suit these heads better, thaking note being shaved 30thou and flow figures, out of the 621371 or the crane 2020?

I'll also definately be calling you this week. most probly after wednesday, to organise h/gaskets, h/bolts & t/chain etc for the job.

 

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Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 12:13 am 
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Jeff,you wont need head bolts as they come with the ARP head bolts which are'nt tty bolts.Cam with around 500 thou lift would be around the mark to match the heads.

 

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Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 12:09 pm 
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I'd be going Crane 2030 or 2031 with 1.72's
Alittle less duration and more streetable...
Wider lobe centre helps idle quality...
I think Crow and Crane cam's specs have been confused with rocker ratio's above ????
Piston to valve clearance will need to be checked !!

 

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Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 12:57 pm 
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Pete I understand what your saying regarding the Tweecer, but there are cams out there which will work without it, and should the finances become available later, can be improved upon with the tweecer.

Ideally yes I agree running a 2031 with a set of 1.72s would be the way to go, but he has 1.6s... and a couple of cars here in WA have had idle issues with a 2031, both with and without a tuner.

The Crow 621371 has 0.312" lobe lift, mulitplied by:
1.6 = 0.499" valve lift
1.62 = 0.505"
1.7 = 0.530"
1.72 = 0.537"
Added to which its on a 115LCA profile. We've run plenty with standard ECU's. Both EECIVs and Vs.

 

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200kw 5.0L, T5, Koni shocks, King S/Lows, Whiteline swaybars, DBA 4000 rotors, Acron CAI, 80mm Accufab TB, Difillipo headers & cats, twin 2.5" & Aerochambers, 3.91 LSD.

To Come:
Long rod 306, TFS 11R 205cc heads, SHP camshaft, 1.72 R/R, ported TFS Box R, 400hp NX SHO kit...

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Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 1:03 pm 
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EBXR8380 wrote:
I'd be going Crane 2030 or 2031 with 1.72's
Alittle less duration and more streetable...
Wider lobe centre helps idle quality...
I think Crow and Crane cam's specs have been confused with rocker ratio's above ????
Piston to valve clearance will need to be checked !!


agree if you wanna run the stock computer keep your lobe separation angle 114 deg or greater

but Petes right if your gonna compromise your cam because you cant afford to do what you really want then wait until you can afford it.....by closing up the lobe seperation angle youll get a really strong midrange....but idle will suffer........depends what you wanna achieve :)
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Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 1:31 pm 
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Im running the trickflow stage 1 cam. Still very streetable, although lumpy. sounds nice. good power from 2800-6000. I still havent tuned ecu, and in stock form it handles it well....

But ill be looking for a tweecer or aftermarket soon to make the most of it

I highly recommend this cam. and btw its designed for use with 1.6 ratio rockers (id use roller)

 

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Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 1:48 pm 
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BOTTLEDUP wrote:
Pete I understand what your saying regarding the Tweecer, but there are cams out there which will work without it, and should the finances become available later, can be improved upon with the tweecer.

Ideally yes I agree running a 2031 with a set of 1.72s would be the way to go, but he has 1.6s... and a couple of cars here in WA have had idle issues with a 2031, both with and without a tuner.

The Crow 621371 has 0.312" lobe lift, mulitplied by:
1.6 = 0.499" valve lift
1.62 = 0.505"
1.7 = 0.530"
1.72 = 0.537"
Added to which its on a 115LCA profile. We've run plenty with standard ECU's. Both EECIVs and Vs.


I know only too well what cams work and don't work. How much is the cam and associated bits to make it work?
My point is; why is proper calibration always the last resort? Proper calibration means more power.
I get guys that have spent 10+ grand on an engine then complain about the price when they need to buy a tweecer!? It makes no sense!
I can understand that it would be a last resort if it's a chip or other device that the car owner cannot modify because it would mean several expensive trips for a recal.

Pete.
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