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EGR or no EGR?? 

 

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 Post subject: EGR or no EGR??
Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 8:50 pm 
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As you all know the standard e-series 5L throttle body is 55mm.
I have upgraded to the au 65mm tb but kept the e-series 55mm egr spacer.
Now i am thinking i need to put the 65mm spacer on but being off the au it doesn't have provisions for the egr system. So my question is keep egr or not??
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 Post subject: Re: EGR or no EGR??
Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 11:27 pm 
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Keep it and get your 55mm opened up to 65mm. Amy good machine shop should be able to do it for ya.

Brett

 

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 Post subject: Re: EGR or no EGR??
Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 12:34 am 
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just fit the AU item, EGR is a backwards emission idea that is good for gumming up intake manifolds and reducing power.

 

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 Post subject: Re: EGR or no EGR??
Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 6:47 am 
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It is important to keep the EGR system working electrically and vacuum-wise. Otherwise you will get multiple fault codes. The actual EGR gas supply could be blocked off and the ecu wouldn't know. But there isn't much point in doing this as the ecu cuts EGR under WOT anyway.

 

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 Post subject: Re: EGR or no EGR??
Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 11:44 am 
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bbqburner wrote:
just fit the AU item, EGR is a backwards emission idea that is good for gumming up intake manifolds and reducing power.


It actually reduces the intake temp a little, and plenty of current vehicles still use EGRs

 

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 Post subject: Re: EGR or no EGR??
Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 1:46 pm 
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I always thought that EGR was there to reduce emissions whilst the car is cold by syphoning off some of the exhaust gas and recirculating it back through the inlet (I am lead to believe that it helps get the car up to temp quicker too). Once its all up to temp EGR's only function is to help burn off any unburnt fuel/gas.
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 Post subject: Re: EGR or no EGR??
Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 2:05 pm 
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EGR I believe also increases fuel economy. As it is only used on light cruise conditions there is no power advantages removing it.

 

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 Post subject: Re: EGR or no EGR??
Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 2:13 pm 
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Its very hard to see how EGR can increase economy.

EGR decreases emissions, reducing bad fumes. It also decreases the available oxygen to the cylinder, reducing the maximum power available (hence it being turned off at full throttle)

Max. Fuel economy comes with the most complete burn and ideal fuel mixtures, however there is a balance in that this produces those bad fumes. Mixing Exhaust gasses into the airstream changes the burn, and reduces these

As mentioned - standard procedure in the past was to block off or disable the valve. On an EFI Car, you need to make sure that the ECU still sees the valve or it will output an error code.

Nigel
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 Post subject: Re: EGR or no EGR??
Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 3:16 pm 
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Whether or not to keep EGR is up to you; there are many reasons for and against.

You can remove it and trick the ECU that it is still there (using a 3 way resistor bridge) but that isn't the right way. The proper way to do it is to null EGR values/tables in your ECU as the ECU adjusts according to "seen" EGR conditions. If you look in your binary there are a lot of functions against EGR that the ECU uses to change spark and fuel. So ideally, to remove EGR you need to remove EGR adjustments on the ECU, datalog, then retune the ECU without EGR.

EGR doesn't reduce bad fumes as I understand bad fumes (being nitrous oxides), as this is a result of too hot a burn so nitrogen fuses with oxygen. What EGR tries to do is send unburnt fuel back into the intake manifold to try to make sure most of your fuel is actually burnt. So in that sense it does improve efficiency in that your motor is actually making the most of the fuel you've given it. I guess that could mean that it does indeed improve economy a tiny bit as then the ECU will read that the mixture with EGR open is a bit rich and pulls back on the injectors to provide less fuel than before so that it reaches it's optimum lambda. That said, EGR can probably reduce the nitrous oxide production providing that the EGR actually does cool intake temperatures, which means a cooler burn which means less chance of NoX being made..

 

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 Post subject: Re: EGR or no EGR??
Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 4:28 pm 
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at cruise the engine runs lean of stoich.
lean = hot = NOx (nitrogen oxides) and also to a lesser extent too hot for a long period = catalytic covertor damage
so it recirculates already burnt gas back to the combustion chamber which cools the combustion charge down allowing it to run lean without the negative effects.

google it.

 

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 Post subject: Re: EGR or no EGR??
Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 5:15 pm 
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Thanks Guys! If the computer reads the egr to adjust fuel tables then I best be keeping it on!
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 Post subject: Re: EGR or no EGR??
Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 8:56 pm 
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One Drone wrote:
Whether or not to keep EGR is up to you; there are many reasons for and against.

You can remove it and trick the ECU that it is still there (using a 3 way resistor bridge) but that isn't the right way. The proper way to do it is to null EGR values/tables in your ECU as the ECU adjusts according to "seen" EGR conditions. If you look in your binary there are a lot of functions against EGR that the ECU uses to change spark and fuel. So ideally, to remove EGR you need to remove EGR adjustments on the ECU, datalog, then retune the ECU without EGR.

EGR doesn't reduce bad fumes as I understand bad fumes (being nitrous oxides), as this is a result of too hot a burn so nitrogen fuses with oxygen. What EGR tries to do is send unburnt fuel back into the intake manifold to try to make sure most of your fuel is actually burnt. So in that sense it does improve efficiency in that your motor is actually making the most of the fuel you've given it. I guess that could mean that it does indeed improve economy a tiny bit as then the ECU will read that the mixture with EGR open is a bit rich and pulls back on the injectors to provide less fuel than before so that it reaches it's optimum lambda. That said, EGR can probably reduce the nitrous oxide production providing that the EGR actually does cool intake temperatures, which means a cooler burn which means less chance of NoX being made..


Tricking the ecu can't be done with resistors. There is a full positional feeback loop with EVS and EVPS. So the ecu commands the EVS to move the EGR valve which is monitored by the EVPS and fed back the the ecu. A static position reading like a resistor would provide just isn't enough. But there is an easy way if EGR deletion is important but a chip is OTT. In an E-series intake just plug the hole in the lower intake with a cup plug and leave everything else in place. The feedback loop still works correctly so the ecu thinks everything is OK = no fault codes. The exact same trick can be done with an AU V8 intake swap by drilling & tapping two holes in the AU V8 EGR delete spacer and mounting the EGR & EVPS right where it would sit on an E-series intake. The ecu doesn't know the exhaust gas is blocked = no fault codes.

ECU function PFEHP allows easy deletion of EGR. I tested it today. EVS and EVPS can both be unplugged with no fault codes. This will also nullify all EGR related items in the ecu.

 

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 Post subject: Re: EGR or no EGR??
Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 9:09 pm 
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Hi xafalcon. As I understand it, all the resistors do is trick the ECU that there is a "EGR present" in a static state as you said. The reason they do this in the states is to prevent the engine check light from coming on. Aussie EECs don't have that problem, but it does come up in diagnostics as EGR not working/present.

I set PFEHP to disabled but still had the EGR come up in diagnostics. However in discussion with someone on EECTuning, they tell me the proper way to make sure is to nullify all the EGR related tables. Which bin are you using atm?

Here is a pic of the "quick fix" that they use for the check light.

Image

 

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 Post subject: Re: EGR or no EGR??
Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 7:19 am 
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Yeah, the resistor will remove the "xxx not present" error messages for EVS & EVPS but not the dynamic (sensor moving) EVPS error.

PFEHP needs to be set to "02" = no EGR. I programmed a chip yesterday with only this parameter altered and ran a self test after disconnecting EVS & EVPS and got no fault codes. I'm using a 1DGA binary.

 

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 Post subject: Re: EGR or no EGR??
Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 11:17 pm 
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got rid of mine, still runs good, cant explain why it runs rough though, ha ha
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