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LPG conversion??? 

 

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 Post subject: LPG conversion???
Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 9:49 pm 
Oompa Loompa
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Hey all
I am thinking bout fitting LPG to my ute!! its a 5L 5 speed AU which leads me to my questions can i fit the kit myself?? do i need approval to do so?? im a diesel mechanic so have most of the tools to for the job! can i buy a used kit to fit?? if so where do i look?? what do i need to know nabout used kits?? and last question if i get an LPG kit can i also get an edit that runs on lpg with one setting and ulp performance on another setting??

sorry to go on for so long guys/gals any help would be greatly appreciated!! thanks scotty :D
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 Post subject: Re: LPG conversion???
Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 10:44 pm 
Parts Gopher
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Au^tonna wrote:
and last question if i get an LPG kit can i also get an edit that runs on lpg with one setting and ulp performance on another setting??


i'm booked in for a conversion on my AU 5.0 sedan - decided I'll probably go with a vapour injection system - from a couple of the people i spoke to it sounds like it might be a good alternative to getting something like the flash tuner box or edit or whatever as the injected gas should be able to be fully custom tuned and i'm told you get just as much power as petrol and very little loss of economy. costs a bit more than the mixer system, but with better economy you'll get the cost back eventually anyway...

G

 

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Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 11:36 pm 
Oompa Loompa
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Thanks for the heads up! Any chance you might have a web link with some info on this vapous inj system your getting??
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Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 12:56 am 
Getting Side Ways
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If youre certified to fit a LPG system sure do it yourself,but when it comes to getting rego done or emissions test and there is no complience plate..bye bye car and job.

my 2c

 

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Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 1:34 am 
Oompa Loompa
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If you do a lpg conversion does he car lose power? or not go as well?
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Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 1:35 am 
Getting Side Ways
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car runs smoother but you loose a bout %10 power

 

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Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 1:45 am 
Parts Gopher
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Au^tonna wrote:
Thanks for the heads up! Any chance you might have a web link with some info on this vapous inj system your getting??


i'm booked into Mews Auto Gas in Bibra Lake WA. A lot of the other lpg places are only doing the injection on BA's but these guys seem pretty knowledgeable and it sounds like a good system - no loss of power is a good start anyway... for info just do a google search on sequential vapour injection or otherwise theres some info in the forums... I haven't heard anything bad about it yet

G

 

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- Pacies + exhaust + XR8 17's + Tickford suspension

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Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 11:57 am 
Tyre Shredder
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NC 5ltr wrote:
car runs smoother but you loose a bout %10 power

Maybe on the dynoqueen, but my mixer ring fed EB 5.0L will do EXACTLY the same lap times at Wakefield Park on LPG as it does with the ring removed & 98RON premium unleaded. Vapour Injected & with the petrol tank removed I'd expect to go faster!!

Comparing before & after conversion acceleration back to back (G-tech, WSID etc) the main 'loss' will come from the 70kg or so added weight from having a 2nd tank. The added range of dual fuel = added weight. Ditching the EFI & tank means the weight of a full tank of unleaded vs a full tank of LPG will be almost the same.

 

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Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 1:01 pm 
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Tell me more about the mixer you're using. I just purchased an AU V8 on LPG and its got a very restrictive mixer on it which is naturally affecting both Petrol and LPG performance. I'd be hoping to find something with around 60mm ID..


sam12h wrote:
Maybe on the dynoqueen, but my mixer ring fed EB 5.0L will do EXACTLY the same lap times at Wakefield Park on LPG as it does with the ring removed & 98RON premium unleaded. Vapour Injected & with the petrol tank removed I'd expect to go faster!!

Comparing before & after conversion acceleration back to back (G-tech, WSID etc) the main 'loss' will come from the 70kg or so added weight from having a 2nd tank. The added range of dual fuel = added weight. Ditching the EFI & tank means the weight of a full tank of unleaded vs a full tank of LPG will be almost the same.

 

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Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 2:04 pm 
Tyre Shredder
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Au^tonna, as the fellas above have said, you need to be qualified, not just capable, to legally fit LPG to any vehicle.

Waggin. PM sent to avoid a thread hijacking.

 

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Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 1:51 am 
Getting Side Ways
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I'm also interested in what mixer you have Sam, i'm in the middle of getting my LPG bits together for the conversion, i'll be ordering it next week, also what convertor are you running?
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Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 7:13 pm 
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It wont be hijacking, just informing ;)

 

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Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 8:09 pm 
Tyre Shredder
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Righto then fellas, if you insist. Quote of exactly what was sent to Waggin

sam12h wrote:
So as not to hijack the thread. First thing is have you tried it on petrol without the ring?? What was the back to back difference & at what rpm??

The ID of my mixer ring is only 43mm. It will be a limitation on the racetrack once the motor ceaces to be stock, but for now it provides more torque than I need as I can get inside wheelspin exiting DOWNHILL sweepers. My motor is (for now) a stock E-series 5.0L from the airbox to the 'Y' piece after the cats. Bear in mind this motor has peak torque at 3000rpm & peak hp at 4500rpm. Revs high enough for the LPG mixer to be a choke & the motor is wheezing from the unported HO manifold & E7TE heads already anyway.

I've done some basic experiments & my car will idle with no mixer ring at all (piped straight into the air stream before the throttle) as there is enough vacuum effect from the ISC valve. It is also driveable & has power but only if the engine is kept constantly above 3500rpm. The reason is there is a massive flat spot in between. I have figured out a way (in theory) to setup a twin mixer ring/twin throttle setup that will allow it to idle & cruise (which a 60mm won't allow) as well as supply enough air & fuel for 347ci & 6200rpm, but it will (in my case) be put on a carby manifold. I have not yet worked out how to fit external EGR (still controlled by the EECIV) cheaply.

For your AU, the only solutions I can present are:
-Upgrade to a vapour injection setup like Cooper69s. Costs $$$ & will not be dual fuel from what I understand.
OR
-Think outside the box & make a twin throttle/twin mixer primary/secondary setup on the EFI manifold. For someone with you mechanical abilities this is a realistic option.


& posted by me August last year

sam12h wrote:

My eb uses the stock 1DGA EECIV (1991 5.0L auto, i changed nothing when i put in the t5) and when on lpg, the fuel function is taken over by the landi renzo lamda control http://www.landi.it/eng/prodotti/scheda ... 89000.html which intercepts and turns off the petrol injectors & starts feeding the gas, reading the throttle position & the o2 sensors to keep the stoichiometric mix under all conditions, effectivley making the system 'self tuning' (as long as the ego sensor is accurate). much more effecient than a vacuum system (my v8 has always used less gas than my dads 4.1L ute, including after re-tuning).
2 'disadvantages' (compared to petrol) are no lean throttle cruise (ie. when the eeciv activates the egr & replaces some petrol with exhaust to prevent detonation whilst lean) & the ignition map is still stock to suit 91ron. runs great though, much cheaper & like i said before, same speeds & times on track no mater which fuel (even without mixer ring while burnin 98).

 

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Posted: Sat Jul 15, 2006 8:57 am 
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Au^tonna wrote:
Thanks for the heads up! Any chance you might have a web link with some info on this vapous inj system your getting??

Check out this web site www.gas-injection.com.au/ his injectors aren't avaliable yet as he can't get financial backing in Australia but i do believe they are at the cutting edge of lpg technology

 

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Posted: Sat Jul 15, 2006 11:53 am 
Getting Side Ways
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351EL wrote:
Au^tonna wrote:
Thanks for the heads up! Any chance you might have a web link with some info on this vapous inj system your getting??

Check out this web site www.gas-injection.com.au/ his injectors aren't avaliable yet as he can't get financial backing in Australia but i do believe they are at the cutting edge of lpg technology

Is that the same guy who done Nigels car?

It is widely available now, but it's certainly not cheap, you'll be looking between $3500 to $4500 depending on the vehicle.
It'll take a long time to pay itself off at that rate.
My mate done a BA 4.0 a few weeks back, he charged the guy $3400, just an indication for you.
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