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MAF's & TB's 

 

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Posted: Fri May 20, 2005 2:24 am 
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XR9UTE wrote:
All the while the EEC(in the case of the 5.0HO) still thinks it has 19's and a 55mm MAF.
This means that load calculation by the EEC is thrown out which, can result in detonation.

So will my ECU have a fit if replacing the stock MAF / TB with one off the AU?

 

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Posted: Fri May 20, 2005 2:26 am 
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Vic wrote:
XR9UTE wrote:
All the while the EEC(in the case of the 5.0HO) still thinks it has 19's and a 55mm MAF.
This means that load calculation by the EEC is thrown out which, can result in detonation.

So will my ECU have a fit if replacing the stock MAF / TB with one off the AU?


Nope, she'll be fine Vic.

Pete.
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Posted: Fri May 20, 2005 2:26 am 
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Vic wrote:
So will my ECU have a fit if replacing the stock MAF / TB with one off the AU?


No it won't have a fit, it may run a bit lean up high though. Some people get away with it fine but the majority run lean. The can be overcome by upping the fuel pressure a little.
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Posted: Fri May 20, 2005 2:32 am 
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Oh BTW EV6 injectors have a different plug to EV1 type. So even though they fit in the rails and intake you can't plug the harness in.
There are also many EV1 injectors with the 4 hole disc type.

Cheers,
Pete.
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Posted: Fri May 20, 2005 2:39 am 
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XR9UTE wrote:
Nope, she'll be fine Vic.

Pete.

Excellent! ( rubs fingers together like Monty Burns )


EDXR8 wrote:
No it won't have a fit, it may run a bit lean up high though. Some people get away with it fine but the majority run lean. The can be overcome by upping the fuel pressure a little.

Understood on the likelihood of it running a little lean up high and that adding an adj. fuel reg will sort that. :)


So then guys, when the AU TB is installed, how do we learn whether it is running leaner up high? What indicates that? Are you checking the AF:R directly with a gizmo or is there some other indicator?

 

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Posted: Fri May 20, 2005 2:41 am 
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Vic wrote:
XR9UTE wrote:
Nope, she'll be fine Vic.

Pete.

Excellent! ( rubs fingers together like Monty Burns )


EDXR8 wrote:
No it won't have a fit, it may run a bit lean up high though. Some people get away with it fine but the majority run lean. The can be overcome by upping the fuel pressure a little.

Understood on the likelihood of it running a little lean up high and that adding an adj. fuel reg will sort that. :)


So then guys, when the AU TB is installed, how do we learn whether it is running leaner up high? What indicates that? Are you checking the AF:R directly with a gizmo or is there some other indicator?


On the dyno with a wide band O2 sensor.

Pete.
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Posted: Fri May 20, 2005 2:43 am 
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Deleted: Pete is too quick :D
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Posted: Fri May 20, 2005 2:45 am 
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[Other aftermarket MAF's(Pro-M,Granatelli,Ford racing) are actually calibrated electronically for the desired transfer function. Once again this can be a skewed transfer function to compensate for larger injectors. This of course means that they do not suffer from a maxing out of actual mass flow before maximum output voltage is reached.
All the while the EEC(in the case of the 5.0HO) still thinks it has 19's and a 55mm MAF.
This means that load calculation by the EEC is thrown out which, can result in detonation. Many modified engines can actually benefit from increased spark but an across the board spark advance increase can result in problem areas.
Many of the aftermarket MAF manufacturers provide the actual MAF transfer function for entry into the EEC. For EECIV and V this can only be done via a chip,TwEECer or EEC-Tuner, EECV can also be reflashed.
This is the only way for correct load calculation.

Cheers,
Pete.[/quote]
This is a problem that my engine suffered when putting on a proM 75 mm bullet mafs with my 28.8lb/hr bosch motorsport injectors (123's).
to cover up this problem I experimented with fuel pressure, plug gaps, colder thermostats, initial timing & a resistor loop bypassing the IAT sensor.
The best result was obtained by using the R/LOOP ,reducing initial advance by a couple of degrees ,setting the fuel pressure to 44psi, closing up the gap to 1.0mm ,running a 180deg thermostat & giving the engine cold air induction & also a custom plate on the inside of the airbox reducing the overall maf size by 2mm, resulting in a slightly richer mixture.
Did you read the thread I posted a couple of months ago?
Maf and injector calibrations with standard ECU, is it right?
check out the responses, no one thought it made a difference.

 

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Posted: Fri May 20, 2005 2:57 am 
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I'll see if I can find it Kenny.

Pete.
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Posted: Fri May 20, 2005 3:05 am 
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XR9UTE wrote:
I'll see if I can find it Kenny.

Pete.

have a look at ECU & Fuel posts, I found it & re opened it
:kenny

 

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Posted: Fri May 20, 2005 3:14 am 
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Ok just read it.
That's about right, it's just little hard to understand the way you wrote it. No offence...I ain't no engrish teacher either :D We could all get through this a lot faster by just talking instead of typing.
I don't think the others thought it made no difference, it's just that they have seen a lot of cars run ok in "cheat" mode and it's true they do. My old XR was testament to that(even in speed density form) and even my cleveland ran good in cheat mode before the advent of EEC-Tuner/TwEECer.

Pete.
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Posted: Fri May 20, 2005 3:21 am 
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Actually now that I think of it, doesn't the ECU run richer from the factory by about five to ten percent? Would this little extra richness combat the possible tendency to run lean higher up with the AU TB? Or was that what you were meaning - that some cars don't have a problem because that extra richness sorts out the high lean on some cars and not on others after larger MAF / TB install??

 

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Posted: Fri May 20, 2005 3:23 am 
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XR9UTE wrote:
Ok just read it.
That's about right, it's just little hard to understand the way you wrote it. No offence...I ain't no engrish teacher either :D We could all get through this a lot faster by just talking instead of typing.
I don't think the others thought it made no difference, it's just that they have seen a lot of cars run ok in "cheat" mode and it's true they do. My old XR was testament to that(even in speed density form) and even my cleveland ran good in cheat mode before the advent of EEC-Tuner/TwEECer.

Pete.

Just because they run OK, doesn't mean they are running to they're max efficiency, instead of tweaking the ecu to get the results, I have had to tweak all the sensors, Because tweecer don't have a unit that is compatable with EL ecu's :( :roll:

 

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Posted: Fri May 20, 2005 3:27 am 
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Yeah it does run a bit rich from the factory targeting 12-12.3:1 at WOT, I found that 12.5-13:1 gave me the best power on the dyno so thats not too far off. Some of they dynos I have seen using AU maf were around 15:1 which is way too lean.
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Posted: Fri May 20, 2005 12:25 pm 
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kenny wrote:
XR9UTE wrote:
Ok just read it.
That's about right, it's just little hard to understand the way you wrote it. No offence...I ain't no engrish teacher either :D We could all get through this a lot faster by just talking instead of typing.
I don't think the others thought it made no difference, it's just that they have seen a lot of cars run ok in "cheat" mode and it's true they do. My old XR was testament to that(even in speed density form) and even my cleveland ran good in cheat mode before the advent of EEC-Tuner/TwEECer.

Pete.

Just because they run OK, doesn't mean they are running to they're max efficiency, instead of tweaking the ecu to get the results, I have had to tweak all the sensors, Because tweecer don't have a unit that is compatable with EL ecu's :( :roll:


Quite right but the point is many people will settle for something less and if the engine runs ok that's usually good enough for most. Actually I've just been doing some testing with an EL XR8 and the TwEECer. It works but there is a lot of work to be done yet.

Pete.
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