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Machining stub axles- BUDGET BIG BRAKE BUILD . BRAKES ON 

 

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 Post subject: Re: Machining stub axles- BUDGET BIG BRAKE BUILD . BRAKES ON
Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:39 pm 
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Yeah, TimmyA said the same thing re facebook. People were saying fitting the AUII booster was impossible - the pedal would sit too low. I ended up massaging the firewall overhang with a ballpein somewhat, then took 3mm off the crimped rim along the top section of the booster - didn't want to take too much off as the crimp might weaken and the frames separate. The booster was then mounted with 3mm spacer washers. The pedal position itself only dropped around 9mm to original.

Yeah, remember your pics with the 16" alloy test fit.

If you have a look at my pics on the previous page, I removed the AUII caliper fins and end sections - the BA calipers don't have them, and the weakest point is at the dogleg.

Yeah, running a machined EF/EL rotor as a hub, with the disc rotors slip on, with a snug fit on the inside and around the hub to keep the load off the studs.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Machining stub axles- BUDGET BIG BRAKE BUILD . BRAKES ON
Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 11:20 am 
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I didn't do much research on fitting the au2 booster . So I wasn't aware that people said it can't be done ,but I got it to fit doing similar to what you did .

Afterwards i read the ba booster is a easier fit .
I'll start on my next kit when I get a chance ,using Tickford calipers and possibly a smaller rotor to allow fitment of 16" xr6 rim

 

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 Post subject: Re: Machining stub axles- BUDGET BIG BRAKE BUILD . BRAKES ON
Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 10:17 pm 
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Interesting re the BA booster - the mast cyl and mounts on a BF booster were changed, the studs are horizontal to each other, not at a 45 deg angle.
TBH, for normal roadgoing braking, I doubt you'll feel any difference with a 300mm rotor compared to a 330mm rotor, if the caliper and pads are the same.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Machining stub axles- BUDGET BIG BRAKE BUILD . BRAKES ON
Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 11:02 am 
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So you are saying the ba booster has different mounting points compared to the bf booster ? It was a comment i seen on Facebook so who knows how true it is.
I will need some Packers on mine as the booster rod is on a slight angle which could wear or damage something inside over time .

I was thinking the same thing 30 mm won't make much difference,it's the Twin piston caliper and larger surface area of the pads that are doing all the work to pull up the car .

I'd happily sacrifice for a smaller rotor so I can have the 16" rims .

 

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 Post subject: Re: Machining stub axles- BUDGET BIG BRAKE BUILD . BRAKES ON
Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 2:53 pm 
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BA booster will be fine, but the BF boosters need a different MC.
With the mods I mentioned above, my booster sits true to the firewall, and just clears that overhead ridge.

I got my rotors from this mob originally - they ship from Sydney. Dimensions are mentioned.
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/DIMPL-SLOTT ... SwAC1aR~kK

Bit pricey now, so these are cheaper:
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/DIMPLED-SLO ... Swu6tab4xS

 

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 Post subject: Re: Machining stub axles- BUDGET BIG BRAKE BUILD . BRAKES ON
Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 3:19 pm 
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Ah yea I see now , mine is sitting on that ridge so I'll have to do the mods you did so it doesn't wear the piston seal out quicker .

Cheers for that I think I will go with them rotors I'm keen to get rid of my 19's for the 16" shark fins . Way better ride .

 

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 Post subject: Re: Machining stub axles- BUDGET BIG BRAKE BUILD . BRAKES ON
Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 3:36 pm 
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Did you machine the front face of the hub where the wheel studs are to retain E series offset ?

I was going to but I didn't want to take 8mm off the hub face ,it would probably be ok as it's around 15mm thick I'm guessing . So plenty of metal would be left behind .

The thickness of the rotor where it mounts onto the hub is 8mm on the te50 rotor I would guess the Mazda rotors you used would be similar .

 

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 Post subject: Re: Machining stub axles- BUDGET BIG BRAKE BUILD . BRAKES ON
Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 10:30 pm 
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mine is sitting on that ridge so I'll have to do the mods you did so it doesn't wear the piston seal out quicker .
Troy had the same problem on his AUI with AUII booster, the pushrod was also binding on his. I was given a buggered AUII booster which I dismantled, cut the studs off the back plate and used it to test fit. Pics below are the firewall where you can see the booster outline in texta, with ball peining around there, a bit ground off the lip at 10 & 2 o'clock, and the 4 new mounting holes near the old. Once I'd finished I sprayed the area in poly green. Also is the booster with the 3mm ground off from around 10 & 2 o'clock - this lip then sits very close to the texta line in the first pic. Trial and error, but you do need to lessen the amount the booster is spaced forward, as this is magnified with the pedal location dropping. When the booster is bolted up, you can see through the old booster holes where the back frame actually is - mine had two washers on each stud to space 3mm.

Cheers for that I think I will go with them rotors I'm keen to get rid of my 19's for the 16" shark fins . Way better ride .
FTR's are a very nice rim - suit the EF/EL XR's IMO. Not very common nowadays.

Did you machine the front face of the hub where the wheel studs are to retain E series offset ?
Yes, 8mm off, maintain the hub diameter, so the disc hat fits snuggly on it. About 10-12mm thickness left. The stud splines only contact about 6mm. The rotor hub will need to be skimmed so the disc hat underside slides onto it snuggly. The rotor hat holes need to be drilled to fit the studs as they will now sit on the unthreaded section. So with all of this it will be a strong mounting.

 

 

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 Post subject: Re: Machining stub axles- BUDGET BIG BRAKE BUILD . BRAKES ON
Posted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 8:20 am 
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Thanks for the info on the booster and hub, that's good to know I can machine 8mm off the face and not run into any issues.

Also where did the name ftr's come from . I've known then as both ftr and sharkfin ,but I assume ftr is the official name.

I have 2 sets and one spare FTR ,so 9 rims in total . They are the best looking pre au rim imo. I agree hardly see any falcon with then on although I did see a el falcon with ftr's on it the other day ,first Ive seen in years . See them on trailers every now and then .

 

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 Post subject: Re: Machining stub axles- BUDGET BIG BRAKE BUILD . BRAKES ON
Posted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 2:00 pm 
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Well you shouldn't have issues if the disc hat underside sits snug on the machined rotor hub and on the centre hub - most of the driving forces are then taken off the wheel studs. Maintaining the wheel offset retains the scrub radius, which if changed, can effect the steering/stability of the vehicle. In this case it is positive, but would be made more positive if offset is increased.

Most people, including tyre place wheel aligners have no idea what this is - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUDMEd1bMZI .

I've got no idea where FTR's get their name from.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Machining stub axles- BUDGET BIG BRAKE BUILD . BRAKES ON
Posted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 2:38 pm 
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Ive never heard of scrub radius until now either ,I'll have a watch of that video .
. I'll have to do another set of hubs which I planned to do anyway, as the outer hub has a gap between the hat underside . So if not all the most of the load would be on the centre of the hub ,which is better than all on the studs .
But I used a poly plastic or maybe nylon spacer ( can't remember material ) so the hole in the centre of the rotor is centred to the hub. I was unlucky that the te50 rotor centre hole was larger diameter than the centre of the hub . I could weld around the centre of the hub spigot then machine that down so the rotor is a tight fit .or find a rotor with a smaller centre hole and machine out the centre to fit the hub spigot .

I think you said this was the case with the Mazda rotors ?

I do have few things to fix up when I do my next kit ,but in saying that the first kit I have on my xr6 hasn't failed yet , or have any issues came from it .
But for peace of mind I want it all perfect .

 

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Dark Agents,Sunroof, bilstein shocks, 6000k HIDS, 329 mm slotted rotors, twin pot calipers , Climate Control, GarrettT04 turbo,log manifold, crow turbo cam, microtech lt10c, 42lb injectors , 044, surge tank , T56 , rebuilt bottom end , alloy plenum .

Aiming for 300 rwkw

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 Post subject: Re: Machining stub axles- BUDGET BIG BRAKE BUILD . BRAKES ON
Posted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 5:34 pm 
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Scrub radius is new to me too...

If you skim the rotor hat thickness then you can have as big or small of a nose as you need... Mine was left big to be a snug fit in the TE50 DBA 500 series rotors I have...

The outsides of the hub were turned down until they too were a snug fit inside the back of the aluminium hat on the 2 piece rotors so there is absolutely no load on the studs, other than that those rotational forces that would be present on all cars anyway...

I was also left with 14mm after taking 8mm off... And this is loads more than a B series hub so I can't see there being an issue...

You also probably don't want to weld a cast rotor, would not only be a b**ch to weld but you'd build in fault lines...

I'm up to the adaptor bracket stage and then using that to work out what area to be machined off and I got side tracked with other things... I too did manage to get the AU2 booster into my E series but messed up the firewall doing so due to the amount that it had to be formed so I'll get a section cut out and replaced in the project car I think to tidy it up...

Cheers,
Tim

 

 

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 Post subject: Re: Machining stub axles- BUDGET BIG BRAKE BUILD . BRAKES ON
Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 1:04 am 
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I'm good friends with a mechanic with around 50 yrs experience - when I showed him my work, he told me about scrub radius - I had no idea either.
What I did when I had my hubs done at a machine shop was to give them also a disc hat that was the intended fit, i.e. the mazda rotors, so all the fitment areas could be machined to match.

Yeah, B series hubs are quite thin, around 8-9mm IIRC.
Welding will change the temper/hardness of the hub. I think the B series hubs are hardened,
the E series rotors might be hardened around the stud areas - not sure.
Easy way to check for hardened metal is try and file it with the edge of a file - trying to file a nick.
If it files then it isn't hardened.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Machining stub axles- BUDGET BIG BRAKE BUILD . BRAKES ON
Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 11:06 pm 
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That's a good idea to leave a shoulder when facing the 8mm off the hub . I will definitely be turning down my hub and doing that.

Yeah totally forgot about the rotor being cast . Welding would be a pain and I doubt any engineer would sign it off
Another rotor I could use is the ba bf xr6t xr8 rotor which is 322mm .

 

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Aiming for 300 rwkw

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 Post subject: Re: Machining stub axles- BUDGET BIG BRAKE BUILD . BRAKES ON
Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 1:08 pm 
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Yeah welding, don't attempt it.
4mm smaller radius rotor may be all the difference.
My rotors have around 5-6mm clearance inside the rim for 303mm.
So theoretically if I was running the 16" FTR's I could go a rotor of 322mm size.

 

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