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Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2005 11:33 am 
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mitchg911 wrote:
i dont know about all of that but i put some huge battery cables on my xf.. incl earth cable and it makes a huge difference to the voltage drop,, starts easier and charges better.. cant be all bad when it cost me nothing..

you replaced the wire from the alternator to the battery as well??

replacing the cables in your car can become important over time, corrosion on the surface of the copper wires increases the resistance in the cable, which means that even if you've got heavy welding cable, it'll be no better than the stock cable if its old enough to have corroded.....

new, thicker battery cables can be the difference between starting a high compression engine, and getting the symptoms of a flat battery

also, the greater the number of strands for a given diameter of cable, the greater the current capacity

 

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Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2005 1:26 pm 
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Bozz wrote:
It is all a load of s**t.

Clean your battery posts, the wire junction into the posts and the earth points on the body and engine.

Multiple earth points needed on an engine? HA HA HA! tell me, how many amps of current would an engine block or head be capable of carrying? Think of using your engine as a fuse, what is it rated at?

I would often like to go into business selling this sort of rubbish. I love helping a fool part with his/her money, my problem is I am too honest to do so.


You're a fool. Happy voltage drops to you.

 

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Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2005 1:33 pm 
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keep me out of this... :P

 

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Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2005 2:42 pm 
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Bozz wrote:
It is all a load of s**t.

Clean your battery posts, the wire junction into the posts and the earth points on the body and engine.

Multiple earth points needed on an engine? HA HA HA! tell me, how many amps of current would an engine block or head be capable of carrying? Think of using your engine as a fuse, what is it rated at?

I would often like to go into business selling this sort of rubbish. I love helping a fool part with his/her money, my problem is I am too honest to do so.


I dont think its so much where and how many wires you have earthed to your block, etc. More of how big they are. I suppose the same result is achived by doubling the gauge of the earth wire, or running 2 of the same thickness, whether to the same point or not.

Falcons in general had better wiring and better earthing capability pre EF/EL. Dont see many people on here complaining about a wandering oil/volt gauge on their EB compared to the EF/EL owners.
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Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2005 2:46 pm 
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Goto the local auto elec and get a big earth cable straight off the shelf and run that between the battery and the body, cheap, easy and effective, consider also getting gold plated battery terminals, will be way cheaper then $300 and you should end up just as happy.

 

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Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2005 4:41 pm 
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read here a few lines down
"Conductive tyres not included"
http://www.dansdata.com/danletters117.htm

summary....
Quote:
For this reason, I find reports like this one, which found a massive 1%-or-so gain in peak dyno power with an earthing kit, plausible enough. The complexity of the engine management system, in a modern tweaky performance car, is sufficient that improving the earthing may well actually do something.

If people were claiming really noticeable gains then I'd be very suspicious - if bad earthing was costing 40 horsepower, the manufacturers really would have noticed - but the marginal gains reported, assuming they're not just testing errors, aren't ludicrous.

The above-linked page also talks about how to make your own earthing web, by the way, much cheaper than a pre-packaged one that comes with a rice boy sticker.



mmm placebo effect.

 

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Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2005 9:05 pm 
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Waggin wrote:
Bozz wrote:
It is all a load of s**t.

Clean your battery posts, the wire junction into the posts and the earth points on the body and engine.

Multiple earth points needed on an engine? HA HA HA! tell me, how many amps of current would an engine block or head be capable of carrying? Think of using your engine as a fuse, what is it rated at?

I would often like to go into business selling this sort of rubbish. I love helping a fool part with his/her money, my problem is I am too honest to do so.


You're a fool. Happy voltage drops to you.


OK, let me demonstrate. EL Fairmont manual with the folloowing accessories running and approximate current draw based on 13v:

2x 65w lowbeams - 10a
2x 65w highbeams - 10a
2x 100w driving lights 15a
fan on 9 - 8a
air conditioner - 3a
fuel pump - 3a
thermofans on full 30a

So a total electrical draw of almost 80 amps and look at the voltage drop:

click for the full size image.
Image

I managed to get it to 0.21v using the MAX reading function on the multimeter with the reverse lights on and foot on the brakes. How is this a significant voltage loss at full load?
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Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 3:16 am 
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uhhh im pretty new to the actually earthing stuff. but if i was to get new 4gauge wires and replaced all of the earth wires...... how many wires would i be replacing? or do i just connect another cable from the negative terminal from the battery to the car chassis?

phong

 

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Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 9:44 am 
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Just did a search on here for "earthing" and found this following piece written by waggin:

Quote:
They basically daisy chain, almost like 1 wire from the neg terminal, terminating at several other 'critical' spots around the engine, and engine bay

so perhaps from the Neg Terminal, to the Shock Tower, to the Engine Block, to the Head, to the Bell Housing.


This post shows that you believe adding a piece of wire between the engine block to the head to the gearbox mount will achieve a difference.

I'm sorry but that is ludicrous. Absolutely wrong. Go and measure the voltage drop between the block and head and gearbox. I absolutely guarantee you wont get anything under 0.01v, most likely less however most DMM's will pick up stray RFI and thats what you'll be reading.

A wire is a piece of metal to carry electricity. Your engine block is a piece of metal that can carry electricity. What is thicker, the 4 gauge wire or your engine block? How about all the bolts that attach the head to the block? How about all the bolts that attach the gearbox to the engine, not even including all the surface area contact between the gearbox and engine?

Oh, how much current does a typical slushbox consume anyway? An engine typically uses around 2-5 amps to keep the injectors and coil going, I still dont see any significant improvement by pissing in the sea here.

What may be done to improve things is adding a thicker wire to the chassis from the battery. It appears there are two 12 gauge wires here going to the radiator overflow tank mount but they're short and do the job reasonably well according to what I tested above. My electricals are in very good condition, if yours aren't then I'd suggest fixing the factory stuff first before adding unnecessary weight and product. I'll check battery neg to chassis today, I forgot to do that last night, that'll probably be a little more than the 0.21v I measured last night if the earth between the engine and chassis isn't in good condition.
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Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 12:19 pm 
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Bozz wrote:
What may be done to improve things is adding a thicker wire to the chassis from the battery. It appears there are two 12 gauge wires here going to the radiator overflow tank mount but they're short and do the job reasonably well according to what I tested above.


I think you have just kind of shot yourself in the foot there.

You accept that the factory wiring to the block my not be adequate and replacing it with a larger wire will have some effect.

Same with the hot earth. I am by no means saying its a reasonably priced product, however you are still ending up with the same thing. A greater capacity of earthing over the engine, and body, of the vehicle.

I see you are of the opinion that 2 x 12 gauge wires has sufficient capacity to run the entire vehicle, excluding the engine. Considering that an 8 gauge is just sufficient to run a half decent amp, is 2 x 12 enough to run my 2 amps, premo sound, ghia electrics, windows, lights and thermo fans, all at once. I dont think so considering the loss of efficiency when everything is turned on. And yes, my electrical system is in good condition, to the point where I have sanded every ground contact on the vehicle, and gotten no more decent results.
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Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 1:15 pm 
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i think we need some sufficent testing on this see what kind of results are got, and then tech documentation can be done if there is better results by running thicker cable or having more grounding points etc.
you used to be able to buy earthing kits on ebay for about $50 to may be a cheaper alternative to the hot earth
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