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Broke the T5 

 

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 Post subject: Re: Broke the T5
Posted: Mon May 10, 2010 6:19 pm 
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a lot of great info here, really answers a lot of my questions, now im wandering if i need to get a cooler on my t5 when i run more power and if i need to get the retainer aswel... actually didnt know that the t56 is a stronger box... thought it was basically a t5 but with one more gear...

but i definately wont go to autos, just too boring no fun...

i guess i wont give it much in 3rd gear then, soo all gears but 3rd are pretty strong?

and if i do end up getting a straight cut down the track will that be too expensive? like compared to a rebuilt t5? and is a rebuilt t5 bascially all new internals or just 2nd handies?

 

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 Post subject: Re: Broke the T5
Posted: Mon May 10, 2010 6:23 pm 
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lukeyxr6t wrote:
a lot of great info here, really answers a lot of my questions, now im wandering if i need to get a cooler on my t5 when i run more power and if i need to get the retainer aswel... actually didnt know that the t56 is a stronger box... thought it was basically a t5 but with one more gear...

but i definately wont go to autos, just too boring no fun...

i guess i wont give it much in 3rd gear then, soo all gears but 3rd are pretty strong?

and if i do end up getting a straight cut down the track will that be too expensive? like compared to a rebuilt t5? and is a rebuilt t5 bascially all new internals or just 2nd handies?



Build it your self mate. I'm not sure how much after market gear sets cost, but the Tremec Z gears cost me: $240- cluster, $85 second gear and the other gears were about 60-90 each. US dollars, Z gears are rated to 330 ft lb of torque.

You can get heaps of heavier duty versions too, but obviously cost a lot more.

They are quite easy to build too! I was very surprised with how easy they are.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Broke the T5
Posted: Mon May 10, 2010 7:46 pm 
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XFWAGON wrote:
lukeyxr6t wrote:
a lot of great info here, really answers a lot of my questions, now im wandering if i need to get a cooler on my t5 when i run more power and if i need to get the retainer aswel... actually didnt know that the t56 is a stronger box... thought it was basically a t5 but with one more gear...

but i definately wont go to autos, just too boring no fun...

i guess i wont give it much in 3rd gear then, soo all gears but 3rd are pretty strong?

and if i do end up getting a straight cut down the track will that be too expensive? like compared to a rebuilt t5? and is a rebuilt t5 bascially all new internals or just 2nd handies?



Build it your self mate. I'm not sure how much after market gear sets cost, but the Tremec Z gears cost me: $240- cluster, $85 second gear and the other gears were about 60-90 each. US dollars, Z gears are rated to 330 ft lb of torque.

You can get heaps of heavier duty versions too, but obviously cost a lot more.

They are quite easy to build too! I was very surprised with how easy they are.


ahh ill have to look into doing that then, how much torque can the standard gears take compared to the z gears? are they like much stronger or? becuz by the end of my build i wana have around 400kw atw

 

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 Post subject: Re: Broke the T5
Posted: Tue May 11, 2010 9:37 am 
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lukeyxr6t wrote:
i wana have around 400kw atw


Get a T56.
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 Post subject: Re: Broke the T5
Posted: Tue May 11, 2010 9:44 am 
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lukeyxr6t wrote:
a lot of great info here, really answers a lot of my questions, now im wandering if i need to get a cooler on my t5 when i run more power and if i need to get the retainer aswel... actually didnt know that the t56 is a stronger box... thought it was basically a t5 but with one more gear...

but i definately wont go to autos, just too boring no fun...

i guess i wont give it much in 3rd gear then, soo all gears but 3rd are pretty strong?

and if i do end up getting a straight cut down the track will that be too expensive? like compared to a rebuilt t5? and is a rebuilt t5 bascially all new internals or just 2nd handies?

just get a T56.

I love how everyone thinks this billet retainer will eliminate case flex. The a*** is not the problem, the case flexes, separating 3rd gear. That is when it strips 3rd.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Broke the T5
Posted: Tue May 11, 2010 9:53 am 
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Have you got Rollin's photo comparing gears handy?

The difference is massive.

Ill be replacing my T5 before put my foot to the floor when the turbo goes on.
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 Post subject: Re: Broke the T5
Posted: Tue May 11, 2010 10:48 am 
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you won't be able to build a T5 to last in a street driven turbo 4L with 400rwkw.
1800+kg car and a lot of torque = pop goes the weasel.


also straight cut gears aren't automatically stronger.
you take two gears that are of the same width and material, one helical the other straight cut, and the helical is stronger. multiple teeth contact at once, meaning more gear surface area for a given width of gear. but you get thrust loads.
straight cut gears are cheaper and easier to make, and they transmit power more efficiently because of no thrust.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Broke the T5
Posted: Tue May 11, 2010 11:44 am 
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Steady ED wrote:
also straight cut gears aren't automatically stronger.
you take two gears that are of the same width and material, one helical the other straight cut, and the helical is stronger. multiple teeth contact at once, meaning more gear surface area for a given width of gear. but you get thrust loads.
straight cut gears are cheaper and easier to make, and they transmit power more efficiently because of no thrust.


All true if the teeth are the same size, however, many straight cut a*** are made "undertoothed", so there's fewer teeth on the gear than there would be for a helical cut gear. Thus each individual tooth is larger (or sometimes significantly larger) and stronger....
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 Post subject: Re: Broke the T5
Posted: Tue May 11, 2010 1:52 pm 
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Dansedgli wrote:
Have you got Rollin's photo comparing gears handy?

The difference is massive.

Ill be replacing my T5 before put my foot to the floor when the turbo goes on.


Didin't realise that Rollin had a pic comparing T5 and T56 gears, quick search on boosted got this though
Image
5th gear in a T56, thats a 22mm spanner.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Broke the T5
Posted: Tue May 11, 2010 2:44 pm 
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It was a pic from OED not Rollin
3rd gear
V8 T5 vs T56................
Image

 

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 Post subject: Re: Broke the T5
Posted: Tue May 11, 2010 3:28 pm 
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Wow, that's a huge difference!

Cheers

ToranaGuy

 

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 Post subject: Re: Broke the T5
Posted: Tue May 11, 2010 3:45 pm 
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XFWAGON wrote:
I have a T5Z out of an AU Xr8 in my car, they use straight cut gears and is noisy as hell, can hear the thing whining away all the time, when i floor it, almost sounds like I'm running boost :lol: , just freshly rebuilt it, and filled it with Transmax Z, pretty thin stuff, almost like water! But it's good for the box as the T5 has very small oil feed holes.

The billet bearing retainer is a good idea too as you can get correct preload for the bearing, as the factory stamped one flexes under load, and won't give you correct readings when trying to set it either. When setting preload, at first you will be like "holy s**t, this can't be right, it's way too tight!" but then you realize why it has to be.

For all those interested in the retainer, i got mine from John Cerini, from Cerini Motorsports in the US, great bloke, helped me a lot with my rebuild and sent me all the parts i needed plus some, he's built boxes for NASCAR and all sorts of other places. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/T5-Bille ... 27af0c5d01

The factory T5Z doesnt have straight cut gears in it. If yours sounds like it does, I'd be getting the bearings replaced.

There's also a steel front bearing retainer. It's good for preload and clutch feel as the thrust bearing doent gouge the steel like it does the aluminium after repeated use.

 

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 Post subject: Re: Broke the T5
Posted: Tue May 11, 2010 5:32 pm 
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wow thats a huge difference, so definately going to a t56 will solve my problems for future? or will i still break gears?
how much is a second hand or reco T56? or new but not from fraud

but the differnce in sizes is huge i dont think ud strip out a t56 in any hurry.. has anyone heard of anyone breaking a t56 before? how much more torque and kw can a t56 handle?

 

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 Post subject: Re: Broke the T5
Posted: Tue May 11, 2010 5:41 pm 
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lukeyxr6t wrote:
wow thats a huge difference, so definately going to a t56 will solve my problems for future? or will i still break gears?
how much is a second hand or reco T56? or new but not from fraud

but the differnce in sizes is huge i dont think ud strip out a t56 in any hurry.. has anyone heard of anyone breaking a t56 before? how much more torque and kw can a t56 handle?


CAT600 on AFF broke a Viper spec T56..... with 590rwkw from a Twin Screw blown built 5L Modular!

 

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 Post subject: Re: Broke the T5
Posted: Tue May 11, 2010 5:45 pm 
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lukeyxr6t wrote:
wow thats a huge difference, so definately going to a t56 will solve my problems for future? or will i still break gears?
how much is a second hand or reco T56?


There's no T56 that will bolt straight up in an E-series. Mal Wood can make you one for about $5K. Gear breakage depends entirely on your driving behaviour.
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