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T5 on auto ECU.. just to clarify. 

 

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 Post subject: T5 on auto ECU.. just to clarify.
Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 3:23 am 
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Hi all,

I just put a T5 in my formally auto ghia and I'm having problems with the fans on always and the idle sits at 1500rpm.

I found this snippet from Troyman here:

Quote:
To trick the ecu into thinking it is it neutral you will have to add a 7k 1% rated resistor or a 6.8k-ohm resistor to pin 30 on the ecu And the other end of the resistor is to be spliced into pin 46(signal ground).
to trick the ecu into thinking the transmission temp is ok, by adding a 1.2k 1% rated resistor to pin 42 on the ecu and splice the other end of the resistor to pin 46 as well.

http://www.fordmods.com/ecu-fuel-system-eec-f21/resistor-is-needed-for-a-nl-auto-to-t5-convervion-pls-help-t79676.html

So I did this to the best of my abilities.. This is a pic of what I think I did.

Image

Basically, after doing this, the gear display on my dash went out completely, and the fans are always running.

The car is idling at 1500ish RPM... today I put it in diagnostics mode and checked the base idle as per the manual and it was close to perfect. But as soon as I take it out of diag mode and plug the ICS back in, the revs go from around 700rpm up to 1500.

I did not cut any of the wires when I spliced the resistors in.. could that have been the issue?

Any thoughts would be must appreciated.

cheers

Frank

Last edited by frankieh on Tue Jun 28, 2011 11:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: T5 on auto ECU.. just to clarify.
Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 9:11 am 
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maybe you should read more...

Quote:
This is how to get your standard auto ECU to run properly without having idle problems and the thermo fans running non stop.

and piecesTo begin with we assume that you have already aquired the T5 box with its loom and other bits . Once these have been fitted you will come to plugging in the wiring harness. The standard BTR auto has 2 plugs: one is rectangular in shape which will plug straight in to your manual harness, this sends the signal for the speed sensor, reverse sensor and neutral switch. The second is a round cannon type plug which is for the auto’s only and operates your solenoids, sends the signal for the gear selector and the box oil temp sender. These last 2 items is where the idle probs and fans come in to it. The idea is to trick the ECU in to thinking that the auto is running at the right temperature and in neutral, and for this we need 2 resistors
4band 5band
1 x 1.2k ohm (brown-red-red or brown-red-black-brown)
1 x 7k ohm (violet-black-red or violet-black-black-brown)

If you don’t know how to read resistors then don’t worry because your Jaycar dealer will be able to identify them for you when you buy them. Next you need to gently bend the legs of the resistors so that they look similar to this. I found a small pair of pliers helps a lot!


The legs are bent in a U shape to simulate the prongs that are in the male end of the cannon plug, so it may help to bend them a little twisted to ensure a good contact with the female cannon plug. Next you put them in to the plug like this. The resistors aren’t polarise so it doesn’t matter which way you put them in.


Noting the squared cutouts in the plug pointed out by the aqua arrows, insert the resistors as shown

Green oval-1.2k ohm
Pink oval - 7 ohm

This should then allow the car to operate normally. I finished off the cannon plug by cutting a small piece of rag and stuffing it in to the end of the plug to hold the resistors in tight, then I wrapped it in electrical tape to give it some protection from the elements and also to prevent a short circuit

 

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 Post subject: Re: T5 on auto ECU.. just to clarify.
Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 9:33 am 
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what you need to do is check the voltage between pin 30 and 46 with the resistor fitted, and it should be either, for park= 3.8-4.2v or neutral= 2.8v-3.2v.. either will work..

and check the voltage between pin 42 and pin 46 with this resistor fitted, for the trans temp the Normal Operating Temp voltage= 1.0-3.6V...
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 Post subject: Re: T5 on auto ECU.. just to clarify.
Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:00 pm 
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sweet.. that gives me some parameters to work with.

unfortunately it's pissing down today so will have to wait for a bit.
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 Post subject: Re: T5 on auto ECU.. just to clarify.
Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 10:05 pm 
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Ok, think I've found the prob... almost no voltage on those points... think that signal earth is a dud.. going to try to find another one and see what that does.
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 Post subject: Re: T5 on auto ECU.. just to clarify.
Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2011 12:30 pm 
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OK... the resistors are in properly now.. turns out I thought the diag I'd put up the top was looking at the pins in the plug, not the wires on top... and as a result I had soldered the wires on the correct positions, but on the wrong side. This time the colours match what the manual says they should be.

problem is that the voltages I am getting are both over 6v (6.4, 7.1).. going to pick up my fluke from work today so I'm not testing with a d**k smith cheapie.


In the mean time, is there any downside to leaving the ISC unplugged till I sort it out? I suppose I could pull the ISC off my spare intake and hook that up if the ECU needs a signal.
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 Post subject: Re: T5 on auto ECU.. just to clarify.
Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2011 5:07 pm 
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TROYMAN wrote:
what you need to do is check the voltage between pin 30 and 46 with the resistor fitted, and it should be either, for park= 3.8-4.2v or neutral= 2.8v-3.2v.. either will work..

and check the voltage between pin 42 and pin 46 with this resistor fitted, for the trans temp the Normal Operating Temp voltage= 1.0-3.6V...




OK... This is bizaar... I got my decent multimeter and went to test with the resistors in place..
Between pins 30 and 46, I get .008v

Between pines 42 and 46, I get voltage 007v

ECU must be naff, but other than this, it doesn't seem to have any problems.

Tonight I will test the voltages without the resistors and then get a friend in electrical engineering to calculate the resistor required to get the right voltage cos I can't remember how.

Perhaps it might be easier if I just plugged in one of my spear EL ECU's and test if the voltage is high enough to work then.. I may have killed my nice ghia ECU. :-(
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 Post subject: Re: T5 on auto ECU.. just to clarify.
Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2011 4:07 pm 
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God damn d1ck smith.!!!!

I trused that the resistors that he gave me were right cos he seemed to know his colour codes.

idiot gave me 1.2 ohms and 6.8 ohms instead of 1.2k and 6.8k.

so now I know why it wasn't working. should have checked it when I bought them. :-(
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 Post subject: Re: T5 on auto ECU.. just to clarify.
Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2011 6:11 pm 
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Re the ICS, I have been driving with mine unplugged for almost 12 months. The rev hang with a manual is a PITA even with the correct resistors in place.

The engine braking is much better with the ICS off and the car drives like a manual should, with no interference from the ECU and ICS.

I have now set up a system that has an on/off switch so I can turn the ICS on for cold starts, then turn it off again when the engine is warm enough, usually a couple of minutes, and I have a relay in place to automatically turn the ICS on when the A/C pump kicks in.

Best of both worlds!!!

Cheers
BenJ

 

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 Post subject: Re: T5 on auto ECU.. just to clarify.
Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2011 12:29 pm 
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BenJ wrote:
Re the ICS, I have been driving with mine unplugged for almost 12 months. The rev hang with a manual is a PITA even with the correct resistors in place.

The engine braking is much better with the ICS off and the car drives like a manual should, with no interference from the ECU and ICS.

I have now set up a system that has an on/off switch so I can turn the ICS on for cold starts, then turn it off again when the engine is warm enough, usually a couple of minutes, and I have a relay in place to automatically turn the ICS on when the A/C pump kicks in.

Best of both worlds!!!

Cheers
BenJ

Can a J3 tune fix the rev hang and stuff while still maintaining A/c ans P/S idle up?
I might have to look into this solution soon.

 

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 Post subject: Re: T5 on auto ECU.. just to clarify.
Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2011 12:46 pm 
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Yep a J3 will fix all the problems.

with the auto ECU your revs will sit at 1200ish you shouldn't get any rev hang though (mine didn't)
Your thermofans will be stuck on also.

 

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 Post subject: Re: T5 on auto ECU.. just to clarify.
Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2011 1:26 pm 
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Yeah, I've been wanting to do that for a while, but one thing is currently holding me back.. I have a ghia with speed sensitive steering. (ie it's easy as when you are slow, but firms up as you go faster) I put a EL forte ECU in yesterday to test the voltage outputs at 30/46/42 pins and took it for a spin around the block.. the steering was significantly harder at low speeds and it really made me notice the speed sensitive steering and how good it is.

If the J3 chip can keep that.. but otherwise swap to manual.. then I am a convert. (the reason I'm dubious is that Ghia's never came with a manual, and no other EL's had the speed sensitive steering. I will have to get a J3 for the charger anyway, but when I do I will probably start tuning with the Ghia turn and modify the maps of that to suit.

For now, I've put a solid rubber gasket under the ICS and it now idles sweet at 700rpm. Now to sort the Fans out which are still on all the time.. Today I'm going to wander over to the electical engineering dept and pick up some resistors, and fix that issue for good.
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 Post subject: Re: T5 on auto ECU.. just to clarify.
Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2011 2:09 pm 
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I always thought, but wasnt sure, that to keep the ssps (I've got the same issue) was to convert to manual with resistors then have the J3 programmed to remove the rev hang and still keep cold startup and A/C and P/S idle-up control.

I dont think the switch for ssps has been found in the code as there's no real demand to warrant the research required.

 

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 Post subject: Re: T5 on auto ECU.. just to clarify.
Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2011 4:22 pm 
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Yeah I'm in the process in fitting SSPS in all my cars - I really like it, though you do need an uprated suspension to make it fun.
IIRC Jason said in his thread that he wasn't able to retain SSPS on a J3 update.

You could experiment with cardboard gaskets with smaller holes to improve it - IIRC 3mm was around optimal, then you can cut one out with proper gasket paper.

 

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 Post subject: Re: T5 on auto ECU.. just to clarify.
Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2011 1:46 am 
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The question is.... is the ssps infinitely variable, or is it triggered by a simple speed switch. If it is the later there are other ways to trigger that right?
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