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FG xr6 looks like its made cheap! 

 

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 Post subject: Re: FG xr6 looks like its made cheap!
Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 11:01 am 
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I worked in a plastics factory for a while and I can tell you that there are a huge number of different plastics and they all have different thermal characteristics.

Something else to think about.... t

they say it takes a thousand years for plastic in the environment to break down.... how long do you think the aluminum one would last left exposed to the elements?
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 Post subject: Re: FG xr6 looks like its made cheap!
Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 1:36 pm 
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the mondeo plastic ones are brittle after 15 years and tend to develop air leaks which are damn near impossible to nail down, the whole "1000's of years to break down" arguement is incorrect as this is a complete and total breakdown sense not a degrade untill useless as a mechanical component.they use them because they are cheap and light and last long enough to get the car through its usefull lifespan.

Carbon fibre is a high cost, high performance material chosen for its superiority to steel/aluminium in weight per unit of strength, however it also has a shorter lifespan due to UV destabilisation and fatigue and is brittle, eg it will not deform plasticly given a certain load but will then reach its ultimate strength at 101% of that same load and fail catastrophicly

id hazard a guess that if you took an alloy intake manifold and a plastic one and set them oustide (protected from mercury of course - THATS CHEATING) the alloy one would still be serviceable LONG after the plastic one was useless.

in 50 years time we can revisit this topic and see just how many FG falcons are still getting around with their original intake manifolds.

 

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 Post subject: Re: FG xr6 looks like its made cheap!
Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 2:40 pm 
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I used to work for a plastics company, and learned a bit about plastics in the process (maybe just enough to be dangerous). Almost all plastics are man-made polymers, so they can be custom-engineered at the molecular level to achieve just about any technical requirement - heat resistance or insulation, solvent or acid resistance, weight, strength (in tension, compression, torsion, sheer or impact), hardness, wear resistance, electrical resistance, slipperiness, etc. Plastics can be made literally bullet-proof.

Like MAD says, plastics ain't plastics. So a plastic intake manifold won't necessarily fall apart like a cheap chinese toy. Depending on what kind of plastic, it may be the only piece of a car left when the rest has rotted to oblivion.

 

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 Post subject: Re: FG xr6 looks like its made cheap!
Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 2:44 pm 
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I must admit that I always thought plastic radiator tanks were a really bad idea and I've been proven wrong on that as well.
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 Post subject: Re: FG xr6 looks like its made cheap!
Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 2:48 pm 
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plastic radiator tanks are the worst idea in the fuken world.. right beside the EA and the AU design team.
They shlt emselves at the plastic seem and where the plastic is joint to the alloy core. with no warning ot anythin.

 

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 Post subject: Re: FG xr6 looks like its made cheap!
Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 3:32 pm 
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maybe, but I've never had one go.. and I've owned a lot of e series...

Lots of core leaks, but no tanks.

besides, the tech got better,, there are not many cars now that don't have plastic tanks..and the problem has stabilised.
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 Post subject: Re: FG xr6 looks like its made cheap!
Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 6:28 pm 
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frankieh wrote:
besides, the tech got better,, there are not many cars now that don't have plastic tanks..and the problem has stabilised.



No it hasn't, It is still the single most common cooling system failure that we see.
Life span is about 8 years for plastic cooling system components.

The tanks actualy crack from the inside out and %90 of the time it's a catastrophic failure with almost instant coolent loss causing an over heat. It's always the 'top' tank that goes first as it's the one that sees the hottest water.

 

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 Post subject: Re: FG xr6 looks like its made cheap!
Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 6:41 pm 
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fair enough.. didn't know that.. was going from my own experiance in that my EA is still driving around with it's original radiator in it (afaik) with no issues.. and although I have replaced a couple of EF/EL radiators in the last few years, none were because of the tank.. they were all physical damage to a core or fin rot.
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 Post subject: Re: FG xr6 looks like its made cheap!
Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 6:48 pm 
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EA got the copper radiators didnt they? or copper tanks and alloy core?

 

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 Post subject: Re: FG xr6 looks like its made cheap!
Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 6:54 pm 
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my old late 90 series II EA had plastic tanks from memory.
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 Post subject: Re: FG xr6 looks like its made cheap!
Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 9:47 pm 
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efxr6wagon wrote:
I used to work for a plastics company, and learned a bit about plastics in the process (maybe just enough to be dangerous). Almost all plastics are man-made polymers, so they can be custom-engineered at the molecular level to achieve just about any technical requirement - heat resistance or insulation, solvent or acid resistance, weight, strength (in tension, compression, torsion, sheer or impact), hardness, wear resistance, electrical resistance, slipperiness, etc. Plastics can be made literally bullet-proof.

Like MAD says, plastics ain't plastics. So a plastic intake manifold won't necessarily fall apart like a cheap chinese toy. Depending on what kind of plastic, it may be the only piece of a car left when the rest has rotted to oblivion.


Ok then, i want a plastic that conducts heat and electricity very well, what? you cant? plastic is still fairly limited in its properties (two biggest ones there) and there is only so much you can do to improve it.

 

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 Post subject: Re: FG xr6 looks like its made cheap!
Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 10:24 pm 
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MAD wrote:
BMW have been using plastic manifolds since early 90's.
Dad's E34 is still going fine, the manifold hasnt imploded.


Same at work, plenty of cars from the 90's with plastic intakes which are still working perfect

 

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 Post subject: Re: FG xr6 looks like its made cheap!
Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 12:19 am 
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What about the radiator header tank? I haven't really heard of them exploding all the time. Just getting filthy inside.

 

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 Post subject: Re: FG xr6 looks like its made cheap!
Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 12:31 am 
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MAD wrote:
What about the radiator header tank? I haven't really heard of them exploding all the time. Just getting filthy inside.

Exploding, no, splitting, yes. My AU split a header tank.

 

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 Post subject: Re: FG xr6 looks like its made cheap!
Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 1:05 am 
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JOSE wrote:

Ok then, i want a plastic that conducts heat and electricity very well, what? you cant? plastic is still fairly limited in its properties (two biggest ones there) and there is only so much you can do to improve it.


Lucky manifolds don't need to conduct heat and electricity very well. :wink:

 

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